Susato - No!

[Azalin]

There's lotsa difference between professionnal/studio/stage playing and session playing, and people keeps on mixing both.

[Wanderer]

When I read a post like this I come to either one of these conclusions.
Quistle either has a hidden agenda or he & the players in that
particular session don't have a clue. Would not know a good whistle
if it bit them on the ass. Apologies for the strong language but
stuff like this gets my blood boiling. I don't bother posting or
responding to most of the susato negatives here but this goes
a little too far.
Thanks to all here who defend our fine products and to all the professionals who play and record with our fine whistles the world over. A long, long, list of top players whose feedback we appreciate a
lot more than some clown named Quistle.

Well, I do think that there's a rather obvious third choice:
They have a clue, and just don't happen to like Susatos..

Everyone has their own tastes after all.

[Kelhorn Mike]

Well, it's just my humble opinon and Quistle and his friends are
entitled to theirs. But it is my opinion that they have no taste and
therefore just maybe they don't have a clue or it could be a
hidden agenda. It's pure BS to say there is a "myth" when none
exists. I could care less about people saying they prefer one
whistle over the other but as far as I and many, many others
(most probably thousands of players) the concept of the
Susato being a very good musical instrument is no "myth".Though
I felt very insulted by Quistle's comments I do acknowledge his
right to make them but I also have the right call him on his
BS. Of course, that's just MHO! Thanks again all Susato Fans
and please be advised we'll be making whistles for hopefully
many, many years.

KELHORN MIKE

[StevieJ]

For feck's sake grow up Mike. Why are you taking this stuff personally?

If you had any sense you would take note of the following obvious facts:

1) Lots of players like Susatos.
2) Lots of players dislike Susatos.

Both categories include some very good and some less good players. Those in category 2 have perfectly good reasons for disliking them. You could do one of two things instead of bellyaching and getting petulant on here:

1) Stick to your tried and true design, realizing that it won't satisfy everyone.
2) Think of ways of making a whistle that you could sell to those that don't like the tried and true design.

Everything I've ever seen written by you would suggest there's not much chance of that. This includes your reply to a very polite email I sent you, years ago, long before I heard of this forum. I pointed out my reactions to two of your whistles - a C that I really liked, and and D I bought on the strength of the C, which I was very disappointed by. You brushed off my feedback with barely disguised contempt.

This led me to conclude that you're not a very good businessman, at least as far as customer relations are concerned, and just about everything you have ever contributed here bears this out.

[DCrom]

On all my trips to Ireland, Susatos have been the most commonly encountered whistle being played in the pubs by the locals.

I don't have your extensive experience in Ireland (only got to listen in to two pub sessions while there last month - the downside of a bus tour), but the best whistler I saw (don't have his name - he was playing in a small session in Killarney) spent the night alternating between a Susato and (I think) a Feadog. Of the two, the Susato got by far the most play.

When I visited the local music stores, it seemed that the whistles on display fell into these categories:

1) Generation/Clarke/Feadog/Walton's cheapies
2) Susato
3) Chieftains (various keys)
4) Overtons (various keys)
5) Howard low D

I seem to recall seeing an aluminum-body Dixon in a shop in Dublin, but didn't get close enough to make a positive identification.

Once you got past the cheapies, the Susatos seemed to be the most common.

I actually like my only Susato (a VS D) fairly well. As long as I play it outdoors. NOT a good whistle for solo playing indoors, especially since our house has a lot of hard surfaces that bounce the sound right back. But it's not a BAD whistle at all - in tune, fairly easy to play once you get a bit of breath control, rugged, inexpensive. At the same price point I'd prefer Serpent, Syn, or Dixon over Susato, at least indoors, but that's just my personal taste.

[greenspiderweb]

For feck's sake grow up Mike. Why are you taking this stuff personally?
If you had any sense you would take note of the following obvious facts:
1) Lots of players like Susatos.
2) Lots of players dislike Susatos.
Both categories include some very good and some less good players. Those in category 2 have perfectly good reasons for disliking them. You could do one of two things instead of bellyaching and getting petulant on here:
1) Stick to your tried and true design, realizing that it won't satisfy everyone.
2) Think of ways of making a whistle that you could sell to those that don't like the tried and true design.
Everything I've ever seen written by you would suggest there's not much chance of that. This includes your reply to a very polite email I sent you, years ago, long before I heard of this forum. I pointed out my reactions to two of your whistles - a C that I really liked, and and D I bought on the strength of the C, which I was very disappointed by. You brushed off my feedback with barely disguised contempt.
This led me to conclude that you're not a very good businessman, at least as far as customer relations are concerned, and just about everything you have ever contributed here bears this out.

StevieJ, I couldn't agree more. Forums like these are not the place to bash someone's products, and neither is it the place to attack someone for giving their opinion. It can all be done with restraint and good judgement. Unfortunately, sometimes that's in shorter supply than needed.

Bashing sometimes is done for fun, but sometimes it's just accidentally done when thoughts aren't expressed well. But, it is bad for business to abrubtly and rudely dismiss someone if you don't really know where that person is coming from, certainly not one post. And you are right, we've seen Mike jump on someone before like this, and that's not good if that's all that is posted by this person.

I was going to say, I had a Low D Susato non-tunable that I thought was a great whistle, intune, and one of the easiest playing whistles I've owned. I only sold it because I found others with a tone I preferred.

I also listened to Mick Woodruff play a Susato C on clips and snips that nocked my socks off! It was all I could do to not go out and buy one right away, because I wanted one! I just don't play many high whistles, so I didn't buy it. Maybe someday.

I think your two suggestions to Mike about what he could do about it are right on, too. Just keep making them just the way they are, or try to get a larger share of the market by also introducing new whistles that might please more people.

And customer relations are very important in business. I didn't get a good impression from Mike's post either. And for what it's worth, Mike, I didn't like how Quistle expressed his thoughts either.

[BillChin]

There's lotsa difference between professionnal/studio/stage playing and session playing, and people keeps on mixing both.

I imagine there is a lot of difference from session to session. The acoustics of the room, the mix of instruments, the number of players, the experience of the musicians, how much background noise there is to overcome, all would factor in, as well as the dynamics of the instruments.

For whatever reason Susatos seem to attract more negative energy on Chiff than most other brands. This thread has been relatively civil. However elsewhere on this board I have read any number of jokes about Susatos, and many posts with inflammatory language--that is a lot to take and continuously turn the other cheek.

[Bloomfield]

For whatever reason Susatos seem to attract more negative energy on Chiff than most other brands. This thread has been relatively civil. However elsewhere on this board I have read any number of jokes about Susatos, and many posts with inflammatory language--that is a lot to take and continuously turn the other cheek.

This sort of post I find extremely unhelpful. Point to specific posts; object at the time; say good things about Susatos. But what are we to make of this "there are some around who have bad energy about Susatos"? You turn it into some big conspitorial and irrational thing.

It is not irrational to prefer one whistle over another based on sound, volume, playing characteristics, looks, price. Even if it is purely emotional, it is not irrational to discuss it on a board. This is a discussion board about whistles and the mature and sensible thing is to let everybody have their say. This is our board, we can make jokes if we want, we can be wrong, we can be short. And the idiots will out. If you just read this thread and the one that was linked you get a pretty good sense. If you read a little more you get a feel for who is posting and where they are coming from. "aha, Az likes small intimate session." "peeeplj would skip dinner rather than same something unpleasant about a whistle." etc etc.

All you achieve by this ominous hinting at inflamatory language is that people are going to drag up the inevitable (which people have been civil enough not to mention): That half the reason there have been inflamatory remarks about Susatos in the past is that Mike Kellhorn has on various occasions waltzed in here and given people the distinct impression that they had no business discussing Susatos and even if they did that their opinions were irrelevant.

Was that part of the negative energy you were referring to? Would you like the links?

There are certain simple rules that make things much more pleasant, without having to resort to mind-numbing nicey-nicey talk:
* If you object to something, object specificly and not vaguely. Hints are okay, but don't talk about "some people" or "bad energy" or "some always have this-or-that to say..."
* If you think someone is full of cr*p, and he or she says something bad about someone else, say so.
*If you think someone is full of cr*p and he or she says something bad about you, don't say so: let others say it for you.
*Unlike childhood, on a message board the one with the last word in a spat loses. He or she comes off as petty.

[peeplj]

There's lotsa difference between professionnal/studio/stage playing and session playing, and people keeps on mixing both.

I imagine there is a lot of difference from session to session. The acoustics of the room, the mix of instruments, the number of players, the experience of the musicians, how much background noise there is to overcome, all would factor in, as well as the dynamics of the instruments.

For whatever reason Susatos seem to attract more negative energy on Chiff than most other brands. This thread has been relatively civil. However elsewhere on this board I have read any number of jokes about Susatos, and many posts with inflammatory language--that is a lot to take and continuously turn the other cheek.

Bill, good post, and very fairly written.

--James

[Azalin]

One thing is certain though: when you post a negative opinion about a whistle, whistle maker or shop, you can always expect some uncivilized answer, at least on this board.

[peeplj]

One thing is certain though: when you post a negative opinion about a whistle, whistle maker or shop, you can always expect some uncivilized answer, at least on this board.

Whistles and music are things that almost everyone on this board care deeply about.

Things which people care deeply about, are passionate about, are frequently things which cause our strongest disagreements.

That's just part of being human.

Best wishes to all, no matter how you feel about Susatos,

--James

[SBS144]

As I read through these posts it appears that many of you have sold your Susatos, and bought what would be considered an upgrade in your whistles. Those which cost more and have more of the sound you are looking for in a whistle. As James said, doesn't it all boil down to whose hands it's in, and also personal preference? I see many of you own multiple whistles, and at least 11 that I could count that one person has purchased over time, as well as selling his Susatos. I still have not been convinced from anyone what a "good first whistle" might be. Although I have researched a lot to determine that. I am realizing that you all have your preferences, and I guess it boils down to find a place to start, and work your way through and up to what you like best. I know of one person who used a whistle on a CD he recorded. I'd be interested to know which one(s) were used, and if they are now sold for a better whistle.

[Dale]

I read this thread and I'm not ignoring it. Just deciding how to moderate or whether to just let it ride. I've sent a note to Mike Kelhorn.

Dale

[Bloomfield]

As I read through these posts it appears that many of you have sold your Susatos, and bought what would be considered an upgrade in your whistles. Those which cost more and have more of the sound you are looking for in a whistle. As James said, doesn't it all boil down to whose hands it's in, and also personal preference? I see many of you own multiple whistles, and at least 11 that I could count that one person has purchased over time, as well as selling his Susatos. I still have not been convinced from anyone what a "good first whistle" might be. Although I have researched a lot to determine that. I am realizing that you all have your preferences, and I guess it boils down to find a place to start, and work your way through and up to what you like best. I know of one person who used a whistle on a CD he recorded. I'd be interested to know which one(s) were used, and if they are now sold for a better whistle.

I think I am part of the negative energy that Billchin refers to, and I haven't sold my Susatos (not all of them, anyway). Bought a Susato C just a couple of weeks ago and plan to get a Bnat soon. Tells you something right there, doesn't it? Not that I play them much (and I do tweak them, but that's another story).

Anyway: 75% of my playing is Generations, Feadogs, Sindts, a Humphrey narrow bore. 20% of my playing is Overtons. The remaining 5% is everything else, including my tweaked Susatos.

(I did just get a wooden Grinter and may have revise my numbers... it's lovely.)

[Cynth]

Can anybody please explain where the myth that they were the whistle of choice began and why.

I am a beginner but have been hanging around here for awhile. I have never heard of any whistle being the whistle of choice. If you look at threads where people list their favorite whistles you will see every whistle known to man listed by at least one person. So the myth really is: There is a whistle of choice. Now that you know that, it shouldn't bother you so much that some people like Susatos.

I started out on a Susato. It was what happened to be in the store where I decided to give playing the whistle a shot. It seemed well in tune to me, although I did very little in the high register. The high notes seemed awfully shrill, but then all I knew then was to either blow, blow harder, or not blow. I had no concept of controlling how I blew. It was very loud for my situation and I have since gotten a quieter make of whistle, which some people really like and others don't. I am keeping my Susato because I want to try it again. I must say that I think it is made very well, is comfortable, and is easy to take apart and clean.

The other thing is that it seems to me that it takes a fair amount of time to get used to a new whistle. Each of the three whistles I've played sounded really terrible at first. Strangely enough, they started sounding better the more I played them. I doubt the whistles were adjusting themselves to me, so it must be that I was learning something about how to play that particular whistle. If you and your friends didn't play the Susato for more than a couple times, I would say that is not anywhere near enough to make a judgement. Once you've worked with a whistle for a while you might decide it's not for you. Doubtless that conclusion has been reached by someone about every make of whistle that exists.