Keyless Grinter Flute For Sale

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:43 am

Hello everyone,

I have a keyless Red Lancewood Grinter flute that I want to sell. This is a very nice flute and one that needs to be played regularly, which is why I'm selling it. My other flute is a 6-key Olwell, and since it is also a very nice flute (and since it got there first) it has always been my main flute. I got the Grinter two years ago after meeting Michael Grinter in Ireland, playing one of his flutes and liking it a lot. I thought I would be able to support two flutes in the manner to which they should be accustomed, and at first I was able to pull it off. But in the long run it turns out I just don't have time for both of their constant play-me demands. (Darn day job!) So I have decided to give up the Grinter, hopefully to someone who will play it regularly - although I will definitely deal with anyone who wants to put cash on the barrel-head, whether they plan to play it or make a lamp out of it (although surely none of you nice folks would ever even think of doing something like that...)

I am asking US$1,200 for this flute, plus shipping and handling costs to deliver it to the purchaser. I believe this price is comparable to what a new Grinter keyless goes for. Also, i think the current wait for one directly from the maker is at least a year.

So if you're interested in this flute, please contact me at one of my two e-mail addresses (johnvkerr@earthlink.net or kerr_john@bah.com) or by phone at home (703-849-8714), and we can talk.

Thanks!

John Kerr

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:13 pm

Any chance you could post a picture? Wondering what that Red Lancewood looks like.....

Loren

drummerboy · Post by **drummerboy** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:11 pm

Just wanted to let everyone know about this sweet flute that John has. I play with john during the week the pub and have had the joy of playing this flute. The upper register is so clear and sweet that it takes you by surprise at first. Its pretty obvious why Kevin Crawford plays one. And the wood is candy for the eyes

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:25 pm

If you go to Michael Grinter's web site (http://www.castlemaine.net.au/~grinter/flute.htm), the flutes he shows on the site are made of Red Lancewood. He told me that he thinks this wood performs close to the way cocus does. Having played some of Patrick Olwell's cocuswood flutes, I'm not sure I fully agree with that assessment, but nevertheless it's a very nice flute and a very striking wood visually - especially in a sea of blackwood flutes!

John

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:33 pm

Okay, now I have to know (please)! Based on your experience, how did the Cocus differ from the Lancewood?

Loren

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 8:35 pm

I have to put in a good word here for John and also for Michael Grinter. I know John fairly well, having spent some time with him last summer, and I can say that he is an excellent flute player and a great guy. He keeps his flutes in great condition. I didn't get a chance to play his Grinter, but I've played a bunch of lancewood Grinters and they are not only visually gorgeous but they sound fantastic as well. As some of you may know, I now own both a blackwood D Grinter and a blackwood D Olwell. Both are absolutely superb flutes. I had trouble with the Grinter for a while, as I was learning to play the flute, but the more I play it the more I love and respect it and in the last couple of months I have begun to think it is beyond good - it is absolutely superb. If one wants to hear what a Grinter sounds like with some hard work - Kevin Crawfords playing on "In Good Company" is about spot on. Grinter flutes play like a laser -extremely responsive in all respects with a precise, focused tone. Grinters are, in my opinion, flutes for either damn good players or those who are willing to put in the time to become damn good players. They are NOT easy to play at first, but once you get moving they are like driving an extremely highly tuned sports car. Unbelievable! I love my new Olwell. It's mindblowingly good, but it's NOT a better flute than my Grinter. They are equals - very different, but equal. If anyone out there is looking for one of the best flutes money can buy and is willing to spend some good time and energy learning how to harness its power then buy this Grinter. It's an awesome, awesome flute.
Best,
Chris

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:00 pm

On 2002-06-07 22:35, ChrisLaughlin wrote:
I love my new Olwell. It's mindblowingly good, but it's NOT a better flute than my Grinter.

Yeah but MY Olwell is better than your Grinter =;^)

Okay, don't anyone go getting all PO'd, I'm only joking

Seriously, if I could afford another flute right now I'd be sorely tempted by this Grinter - it would be the perfect Yin to my new Olwell's Yang (And boy, does the Cocus Olwell have Yang!!! Patrick played it over the phone for me today and sakes alive does that thing CRACK!)

Really someone with a bit of lip ought to scoop up this Grinter....Hey Eskin, this flute has your name all over it!!

Loren

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:53 pm

I have to admit, I am quite tempted....

However, I just received my Lehart to complement the McGee, probably set for a few weeks...

But man, a nice Grinter... its a shame that my companies stock hit its all-time low today, feeling pretty beat up by the NASDAQ crash...

Mihcael

gcollins · Post by **gcollins** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:50 am

Man, now that is indeed tempting. Persuasive selling job going on here for this Grinter flute.

Loren: once you played a Grinter awhile back as you were getting into flutes, I remember you saying that it was not as impressive as you had expected. I wonder if you played it today, if it would be different.

G

toddyboy50 · Post by **toddyboy50** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:10 am

G... I'm close to grabbing that Grinter myself, but was a little put off by Chris's remarks on how much harder they are to play than an Olwell.... seeing as I'm still working on basic breathing and embouchure. Any other thoughts on this ? - Tod

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 6:49 am

[quote]
On 2002-06-08 02:50, gcollins wrote:

Loren: once you played a Grinter awhile back as you were getting into flutes, I remember you saying that it was not as impressive as you had expected. I wonder if you played it today, if it would be different.

G.,

I doubt it G., my playing hasn't improved much since then

Seriously though, it's not that the Grinter I played didn't impress me, it's just that the flute wasn't what I expected. The Grinter I played is an earlier example of Michael's work, more than 6 years old I believe and very likely the first flute Grinter ever sold here in the US - a friend of mine bought it from Mike while Grinter was travelling in the US, before he was much known for his flutes.

Anyway, this particular flute is beautiful, very impressive in terms of fit and finish. the flute is fairly thin and relatively light - quite comfortable in the hands. If I remember correctly the tone holes are fairly small and relatively closely spaced.

Personally, I found the flute extrememly easy to play when I tried it, even with the most beginnerish of embouchures which I had at the time, it was no problem getting a sweet tone out of it. I did however find the bottom couple of notes harder to hit - a bit weak. But then that's where my lack of lip really showed, didn't it? To be honest, of all the flutes I've tried, only the Copley was easier to play than this particular Grinter.

The reason I may have given the impression I was dissapointed is because I was expecting the "Kevin Crawford" sound to come out of this thing - You know, reedy, complex tone with plenty of volume. However, the flute I tried was just the opposite - very sweet and lyrical, and also relatively quiet when compared with the Healy and Copley (which I also had in the room at the same time).

It wasn't just my playing ability, I had my friend (an accomplished player originally from Boston) play all three flutes, and here's what I heard as the listener:

Healy: Loud, very woody and somewhat dry tone - quite unique. Excellent intonation, very solid bottom end.
Copley: Equally loud, with a rich, reedy, complex tone. Very fat sounding, solid low end. Beautifully trad tone and very well balanced overall

Grinter: Surprisingly quiet compared with the other two. (My commented after playing both the Copley and Healy "You're going to blow me away at the sessions!" I assure you he wasn't referring to my playing!) The flute's tone was sweet, mostly on the purer side, with a bit of complexity, but little reediness or bark. Bottom end a little weak relative to the flutes high end.

Overall a very lovely sounding flute that I thought would be perfect for those times when you don't need a cannon or buzz saw of a flute. So I wasn't dissapointed, it's just that the flute was so far away from Kevin Crawford's recorded sound that I was left scratching my head wondering if Embouchure really accounted for so much difference in tone, or had Michael Grinter made some changes?

Honestly I'd love to have a really sweet sounding flute like the one my buddy has. And my buddly wouldn't mind having a louder session flute in addition to the Grinter, which he dearly loves and wouldn't part with.

Hope that clarifies

Michael E.,

Sorry to hear about the beating you took on wall street! Yikes!

Tod,

Tough decision dude, good luck!

Loren

gcollins · Post by **gcollins** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 3:48 am

I don't really have a session flute anymore...so it is tempting (though there are no sessions or Irish music where I live and I don't have much time to devote).

But I kind of agree with John. If you have more than one really great flute, it's hard to give them all the attention they need. Serial monogamy for me, and my Rudall has been around the block a bit and won't take to upstarts getting his hour a day.

I've been trying to convince my flute that a Bb flute does not represent competition--just a concubine of sorts.

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 6:50 am

Hello again everyone.

Thanks to those of you who inquired about my Grinter flute - although after reading Chris Laughlin's comments maybe I should be having second thoughts about selling it! But it's too late now, as I have found a buyer.

I'll try to respond later today to Loren's question about Red Lancewood vs. Cocus.

John Kerr

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:12 pm

Loren had asked what I perceived the differences to be between Red Lancewood and cocuswood, since Michael Grinter thinks RL is similar to cocus and I said I didn't quite agree with that assessment. Keep in mind that the only two cocuswood flutes I've ever played were both made by Patrick Olwell. One of them, at the time I played it, was Patrick's personal flute which he has since given to Matt Molloy. The other one was one that he had blocked out for keys but not yet installed them; that one now belongs to my friend Tina Eck. Except for the wood being different and perhaps some other minute differences (since no two flutes from the same maker are ever actually identical), these two flutes are the same as my own blackwood Olwell flute. Thus I attributed the differences that I perceived between these flutes and mine as being totally due to the wood.

Simply put, these two flutes (especially the Molloy one) were far and away the best flutes I've ever played. Their responsiveness and in particular the crispness with which ornaments and articulations would sound was absolutely amazing. (Keep in mind though that, as with a lot of the nuances of flute playing, these differences may have been much more apparent to me as the player than to someone listening to me.) Patrick Olwell tells me that these are the main differences he perceives between cocus and blackwood. Apparently cocus is very dense and the bore of a cocus flute can be made literally as smooth as glass.

So when I ordered the Grinter flute and MG equated Red Lancewood with cocus, I was probably expecting the same level of crisp response I had experienced on the two cocuswood Olwells. But I didn't quite get it, in my estimation. Now that may be just as much due to differences between a Rudall-model flute (Grinter) and a Pratten-model flute (Olwell) as it is to differences between Red Lancewood and cocus. I don't know - the point being that it's probably not worth blowing any of this too far out of proportion. But don't let me stop you...

John Kerr

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 3:08 pm

John,

Thanks a million for taking the time to share your thoughts on the wood subject - I truly appreciate it. Your detailed reply is especially interesting to me because, as you may have seen, I have a Cocus Olwell on the way. Oh man, oh man, oh man, the suspense is REALLY killing me now!!!!

Thanks again John, glad you found a buyer for the flute - Does the lucky person feel like fessing up?

Loren