Is Tom Cruise the anti-Christ or what?

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:37 pm

The Weekenders wrote:To me, Scientology will ultimately result in Seamless Sociopathy and I find it one of the scarier aspects of secularism.

Please explain what “Seamless Sociopathy” is and how a religion can be secular.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:42 pm

I keep seeing parallels to EST and Werner Erhard, except for the fact that EST is kind of off the radar now.
(but I well remember attending one of the meetings in someone's home, and getting my telephone call from "the Washington Center..." and you're there on your end of the call thinking 'the Center of what?' until the drone on the other end has so numbed you that you either say yes or hang up without closure to the 'conversation.' I hung up.)

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:12 pm

The Weekenders wrote:Is Tom Cruise the anti-Christ or what?

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. " --1 St. John 2:18.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:16 pm

I.D.10-t wrote:
The Weekenders wrote:To me, Scientology will ultimately result in Seamless Sociopathy and I find it one of the scarier aspects of secularism.
Please explain what “Seamless Sociopathy” is and how a religion can be secular.

They don't worship any God. The religion part is a way to be tax-exempt, which I believe was successfully challenged in Germany.

By seamless sociopathy, I mean that the adherents, by becoming "clear" and intellectually and completely convinced that they are correct in eliminating what they consider "lower" needs of inferior "unclear" people. The sociopathy is what I understand to be the ability of a traditional sociopath to have no feelings or regards for anyone besides himself.

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:47 pm

The Weekenders wrote:I have known two Scientologists, one was my boss, about 12 years ago. She was an emotionally unstable person with many "issues." She lived very simply, and saved all her money and periodically parted with sums like 6,000 and once 12,000 dollars to get to some next level of "clear."

We had very long phone conversations and from everything I gathered, the whole point was to eliminate negative emotional feelings and ties. But to me, the larger implication was that it created, in the absolute sense, a truly AMORAL person, constrained only by the logic of the results of the legal system. In other words, one could be clear to do just about anything to anyone else who stood in the way of acquisition and progress for the person, but it would be smart to stay within the bounds of the legal system so that nothing negative would happen. Now, I didn't say IMMORAL, because it SEEMED to me that morality was sort of irrelevant in the way I understood it.

I never felt it gave her happiness because she was always steps away from it. I knew another casually who was also always trying to raise money.

I read a very detailed book that was critical of Scientology in the mid-90s, I wish I could remember the name of it. It went into great detail of the history of it, the behavior of its founder and its executives, who were apparently very successful at squelching negative publicity about the group via lawsuits, harassment, etc. The book seemed pretty thorough but of course much was allegations, etc. written from a critical viewpoint.

To me, Scientology will ultimately result in Seamless Sociopathy and I find it one of the scarier aspects of secularism.

Ditto to Weekender's comments about Scientology. With regard to the title of the topic, I feel similarly about the idea of an anti-christ. There isn't such a thing as an anti-christ. As a humanist, I am more interested in making sure that people have the opportunities for a good life.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:41 am

The Weekenders wrote:They don't worship any God.

But don't they believe in space men? I have trouble seeing how this differs (from an outsider-standpoint --from my religious standpoint I see a huge difference) from a belief in angels. Don't they have beliefs concerning the hereafter, and reincarnation? It's also true that they allow membership in other religions, but, I am not sure that on any of these points they differ from Buddhism, which most consider a religion.

perrins57 · Post by **perrins57** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:37 am

Walden wrote:
The Weekenders wrote:They don't worship any God.
But don't they believe in space men? I have trouble seeing how this differs from a belief in angels.

The Belief in Angels relates to a person's belief in a spiritual realm containing spiritual beings. The belief in Space-men is the belief in high order physical beings from another planet.

Both are similar, only in that the belief in them requires faith.

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:45 am

perrins57 wrote:
Walden wrote:
The Weekenders wrote:They don't worship any God.
But don't they believe in space men? I have trouble seeing how this differs from a belief in angels.
The Belief in Angels relates to a person's belief in a spiritual realm containing spiritual beings. The belief in Space-men is the belief in high order physical beings from another planet.

Both are similar, only in that the belief in them requires faith.

But some people, if they believe in anything at all, believe Angels are the result of mans early inability to concieve of higher physical beings.

What's that quote about any advanced technology that can't be understood will be seen as magic?

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:53 am

Cruise, who is currently promoting the Steven Spielberg blockbuster War of the Worlds, is a follower of the Church of Scientology which is against psychiatric medicine.

On Friday, the actor entered a heated discussion with Today host Matt Lauer, when he suggested some people could benefit from drugs such as Ritalin, which is prescribed to children with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD).

"You're glib. You don't even know what Ritalin is," Cruise told Lauer on Friday night's show.

"Psychiatry is a pseudo science," he said. "You don't know the history of psychiatry - I do," he added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4629147.stm

He knows, y'know. All his body thetans told him, and they were there!

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:10 am

perrins57 wrote:The Belief in Angels relates to a person's belief in a spiritual realm containing spiritual beings. The belief in Space-men is the belief in high order physical beings from another planet.

Both are similar, only in that the belief in them requires faith.

Man is a spiritual being. I believe that, and Scientology also professes to believe that. Admittedly, the spaceman stuff is going to be second-hand, but, as reported, their teaching includes that a bunch of people were blown up in volcanoes and their spirits now cling to the living.

Don't get me wrong, though. I am not defending them. But they look like at least a pseudo-religious cult, and not a purely secular one to me.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:17 am

"Is Tom Cruise the anti-Christ or what?"

... has anybody tried to shave his scalp yet? The 'telling' mark of the beast ought to be there....

PJ · Post by PJ » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:22 am

Whatever about being the antichrist, he's not a witch. When he was squirted with water recently, he didn't melt, and if I know anything after watching the Wizard of Oz ... What were we talking about???

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:30 am

PJ wrote:Whatever about being the antichrist, he's not a witch.

I am a practicing Witch... I bear no mark, I am not anti- Christian and I do not melt when wet. However, when my beautiful bride of 18 years steps out of the shower... I do.

Whistlin'Dixie · Post by **Whistlin'Dixie** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:38 am

Joseph E. Smith wrote: I do not melt when wet. However, when my beautiful bride of 18 years steps out of the shower... I do.

Joseph, what a lovely thing to say. 18 years and still in love.
I was married 24 years in May, and my hubby and I still feel that way about each other, too.

M

gonzo914 · Post by **gonzo914** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:53 am

Random notes wrote:Scientology is a cult that preys on the weak of mind.

That alone should qualify it for standing among the world's great religions.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Is Tom Cruise the anti-Christ or what?

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