Playing in a group

[RichardH]

I'm not sure if this is a question or just a whinge - my apologies if it turns out to be the latter!

On Sunday night I took part in a music group, leading the singing at a church service. The practices had been great, and even though I'm diffident about my playing I had to admit it seemed to sound pretty good. I even gained the confidence to bung in a semi-improvised descant or two, something I've never dared to do before. Playing in the service was a lot less satisfactory, though. Moving from the practice room into the large open space of the hall had an impact on my ability to hear myself play, and what I did hear I didn't like much. Only the descants seemed to "work". People said the music was good, but they're a very polite bunch of folk!

Whingeing over! Do you think my problem is most likely to be to do amplification, using the wrong whistle (I like my Shaws), or my confidence? I don't know how I expect anyone to answer these questions, but I'd value any handy hints for situations like this one.

[jsluder]

My $0.02: Try to practice in the location you'll be performing. It'll sound a little different when full of people, but it should still be closer in sound than a smaller practice room.

Cheers,
John

PS: And welcome to the C&F board! (I just noticed that was your 1st post.)

[markbell]

RichardH,

Yes, the size and shape of the room will change the amount of reflected sound you hear. Playing in church has its own unique set of rewards and challenges as well.

May a recommend a visit to www.praisewhistlers.com - we are a board of whistlers and other instrumentalists using our music in public and/or private worship. You will see a number of familiar folks from other whistle boards there.

Come on over and browse. If you like what you see, please register and participate in the discussions. We'd enjoy welcoming you!

Mark

[BillChin]

The room or hall can make a big difference in sound. A different whistle might make all the difference, or as you suggested amplification. In either case, at least one full rehearsal in the hall, plus a good sound check can help your group adjust.

A person with a musical ear can stand in different parts of the performance venue and listen and suggest what might need adjusting. If a person is not available, a sound recording device can substitute, though not give immediate feedback.

Audience energy level and attention are often more revealing than comments. If the audience is perfectly still and you can hear a pin drop, that is a good thing. If there are people coughing, shifting in their chairs, whispering to their neighbors, that is not a good thing and often tells me that I am off, or my material is not up to standard. There are often interruptions unrelated to the performance, but I do pay attention to these subtle cues.

[Impempe]

BillChin Wrote:

Audience energy level and attention are often more revealing than comments. If the audience is perfectly still and you can hear a pin drop, that is a good thing. If there are people coughing, shifting in their chairs, whispering to their neighbors, that is not a good thing and often tells me that I am off, or my material is not up to standard. There are often interruptions unrelated to the performance, but I do pay attention to these subtle cues.

I take it that this was not a performance but a service? If this is the case, you would be wanting lots of participation and probably not wanting to be able to hear a pin drop. I would be very worried if that was the case in one of our church services.....depending on lots of factors however. The comment is valid though in that you notice the response and not neccessarily what you hear yourself.

It is definatley worth persevering the practice being in the room you are going to play in. It will help you decide on amplification and if you need it or not. Your sound man needs to be able to experiment a bit too to get the right balances which is not good 10 minutes before your start.

Playing with the whistles you are more comfortable with gives you more confidence to try those descants and things, I would rather work around what you are playing than changing the whistle.
Ian

[RichardH]

Thanks for the responses - I'll definitely have a look at Praise Whistlers. You certainly couldn't hear a pin drop - we were accompanying congregational singing, which had real hwyl, as they say in this part of the world.

Playing with others is a completely different experience to playing on your own, and I found it very satisfying.

[WhistlinBob]

I feel your pain.I've been singing and soloing with a small
choral group for a few years.a freind at church asked if I would do a solo of O Holy Night on Christmas eve.Our church is very large compared to the hall I usually perform at.I have a strong tenor voice that filled the church.the only thing wrong was I was two beats in front of the piano.I was
devastated when it was over.I think my nerves took over and
I feel I flubbed the performance.very very embarassed.the congregation members are either deaf or too polite to say otherwise oh well there is always next year

[markbell]

Playing with others is a completely different experience to playing on your own, and I found it very satisfying.

Agreed! It's what keeps me going. I get pushed to try new things with new songs that I might not either think of or bother with on my own.

[BillChin]

Thanks for the responses - I'll definitely have a look at Praise Whistlers. You certainly couldn't hear a pin drop - we were accompanying congregational singing, which had real hwyl, as they say in this part of the world.

Playing with others is a completely different experience to playing on your own, and I found it very satisfying.

Oops, never mind then

It still sounds like all that is necessary is a thorough sound check, perhaps a different whistle, perhaps some amplification. I imagine that with the congregation singing it is more difficult to be heard and there is a balance to be found. In the situation you describe, I would not expect much in the way of sincere compliments, or criticisms, because the average person is focusing on their own singing, not your music. As with anything else, as you do more, you'll learn more.

[RichardH]

With hindsight, we should have given some thought to doing soundchecks and the like. We more or less just turned up and played. You live and learn!

[markbell]

With hindsight, we should have given some thought to doing soundchecks...

Oh, that. I hate administrative details like that...

[perrins57]

Youve hit on a couple of interesting point here. Firstly I share your experiences. I have been part of a worship team for 15 years (Bass & Guitar) but when I started trying to play whistles I discovered how much harder it is to get the foldback right for wind instruments than for guitars or voice. If the foldback is too quiet (or non-existant) you will constantly be flipping into the second octave as you overblow trying to hear yourself. If the foldback is too loud, the ensuing soprano whistle feedback will whipe out the hearing of every living thing in a 2 mile radius.

The kind of microphone you use is also very important. Our PA guy did a demonstration of the difference, different model Sure mics made to a singers voice. You could clearly hear how one vocalist sounded better with an SM57 and another the SM58. Particularly important to whistles is the throw of the mic and is the mic strongly directional? (that is, does the sound drop off radically if you move back from the mic, or to one side?)

As for the comment about soundchecks - so few, in my experience, churches have regular music practices, let alone proper soundchecks. If the church does music and worship as half heartedly as it often does, are we really likely to do other things well? Then we complain about why people dont come! I'm lucky in that the church I go to, has had mid-weekly practices for 20 years AND rehearses and soundchecks an hour before each Sunday meeting. If your worship team doesnt put in the time, the results WILL reflect it.

[RichardH]

Our worship group is a new venture and it's a bit tentative at present. The church has had a new sound system installed and that should make things easier for the muscians - the old system only had two mic inputs, which was a tad limiting. So we're feeling our way forward, but there's a strong commitment to meet for practice so there's no reason why it shouldn't come good before too long.
I appreciate the encouragement.

[IDAwHOa]

Isn't it amazing how a few hundred eyes on you can affect the ability of your brain to connect with your fingers???? In my first attempt at church I had so much adreneline flowing I could barely see!

Not only sound checks, but record the performance itselt. This should reveal that you were not sounding nearly as bad as you may have thought. It will also reveal your weaknesses so you can work on them.

[RichardH]

Strangely enough, we decided this morning that we'd record some of our next practice session on the church sound system to give us an idea what we sound like.
You're right about that adrenaline stuff. As a minister I'm supposed to be used to being at the front. I still get nervous when preaching, but that's nothing compared with the agonies that whistling in public gives me. With a bit of luck (and practice!) it'll pass.