9,000 US soldiers killed so far in Iraq?

[jGilder]

Not really a surprise. DOD low-balled the casualty figures in Vietnam, as well. It wasn't until the war was over that we got the actual numbers. The public count was something like 17,000 when the real count was in excess of 58,000 dead. Same game, new war.

Click on title for full article

==========================

US Military Report: Bush’s Achilles’ Heel

The Bush Butcher’s Bill: Officially, 84 US Military Deaths in Iraq from 2 through  28 May, 2005 – Official Total of 1,747 US Dead to date (and rising)

U.S. Military Personnel who died in German hospitals or en route to German hospitals have not previously been counted. They total about 6,210 as of 1 January, 2005. The ongoing, underreporting of the dead in Iraq, is not accurate. The DoD is deliberately reducing the figures. A review of many foreign news sites show that actual deaths are far higher than the newly reduced ones.  Iraqi civilian casualties are never reported but International Red Cross, Red Crescent and UN figures indicate that as of 1 January 2005, the numbers are just under 100,000.

by Brian Harring, Domestic Intelligence Reporter

Note: There is excellent reason to believe that the Department of Defense is deliberately not reporting a significant number of the dead in Iraq. We have received copies of  manifests from the MATS that show far more bodies shipped into Dover AFP than are reported officially. The educated rumor is that the actual death toll is in excess of 7,000. Given the officially acknowledged number of over 15,000 seriously wounded, this elevated death toll is far more realistic than the current 1,400+ now being officially published. When our research is complete, and watertight, we will publish the results along with the sources In addition to the evident falsification of the death rolls, at least 5,500 American military personnel have deserted, most in Ireland but more have escaped to Canada and other European countries, none of whom are inclined to cooperate with vengeful American authorities. (See TBR News of 18 February for full coverage on the mass desertions) This means that of the 158,000 U.S. military shipped to Iraq, 26,000  either deserted, were killed or seriously wounded. The DoD lists currently being very quietly circulated indicate almost 9,000 dead, over 16,000 seriously wounded and a large number of suicides, forced hospitalization for ongoing drug usage and sales, murder of Iraqi civilians and fellow soldiers , rapes, courts martial and so on – Brian Harring

Haven’t we had enough of this?

Click on title for full article

[Blackwood]

i don't know Jack, i would think this would be really hard to keep quiet, esepially since the DOD posts names of the dead. Don't you think that people would report loved ones missing?
Compared to Vietnam this is the world where people have access to email, etc. the world is flattening so to say..

If it's true i would think it would come out and some people will end up in jail.....

[Walden]

Where has all the flowers gone, long time passing...

[cowtime]

....................

The Flowers of the Forest, that foucht aye the foremost,
The prime o' our land are cauld in the clay.

We'll hae nae mair lilting, at the yowe-milking,
Women and bairns are dowie and wae.
Sighing and moaning, on ilka green loaning,
The Flowers of the forest are all wede away.

[jsluder]

Speaking of flowers...

[Denny]

Speaking of flowers...

muscle definition... You don't see that much anymore.

[s1m0n]

The official figures provided by Pentagon briefers only cover those who were DOA at hospital; that's not news and it's not a secret. If you ask--and many journalists have--that's what they'll tell you.

Those wounded who succumb later aren't announced. Ever. Their families will be told, of course, and they'll get a full military funeral and be treated with proper respect, but the media won't be informed and they won't be added to the KIA figures.

The Pentagon's briefers only announce casualty figures in connection with recent actions being reported. If an action reported is "An improvised explosive device struck a convoy yesterday, killing one and wounding seven US soldiers," that's all that'll ever be announced. The briefers won't ever say, days or weeks later, "Oh, remember those guys struck by the IED a week ago? Well, three more have died of their wounds."

So the fact of any individual soldier's death isn't a secret, not one bit. It's just that the Pentagon doesn't talk about it and doesn't provide any statistics.

~~

If this seems unlikely to you, go and google for reports of soldiers who died in hospital. Try and find the numbers involved; it defies credulity to suppose that every wounded soldier to be evacuated to hospital has survived. So at least some must have been killed.

But neither the pentagon nor the mainstream US media has ever breathed a word about it, or covered these soldiers in any way.

[Blackwood]

fair points Simon...

[I.D.10-t]

muscle definition... You don't see that much anymore.

Great point! Especially in modern pictures.


Oh and just to be on topic

Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

[Lorenzo]

The Department of Defense, while not reporting totals, do report casualties according to those who die in action. I wonder where the list is for those who died, but not in action. This Iraq casualties site breaks down the totals is different categories such as fatalities, wounded, coalition deaths (totals from supporting countries), and this page describes the methodology used and the list of gov't sites where these kinds of things are reported. Not all total agree, apparently.

[Jack]

I don't see the difference in one person dying in war or fifty thousand. A life is a life is a life. Loosing "just" one or two lives is as bad as loosing a million, in my opinion. War is evil.

[IRTradRU?]

The name, TBRnews, originally came from the Barnes Review magazine and the site began as a listing of historical books.

Under different management, it eventually progressed to a twice-weekly posting covering national and international news.

We have been accused of being neo-Nazis, Communists, anti-Semites, Christian haters, certainly not Bush friendly and guilty of treason, aggravated mopery, theft of mattress tags from cheap motels, chronic jaywalking and disturbers of the political peace.

I run this site all by myself with a little help from various friends, both inside and outside of the Beltway.

The articles not otherwise credited are usually written by myself although I do not take credit for them. The articles speak for themselves and I do not believe in beating my own drum as so many other journalists seem to enjoy doing. The message is always important; not so the messenger.

:roll:

[The Weekenders]

The Bush Butcher’s Bill:

The DoD is deliberately reducing the figures.
by Brian Harring, Domestic Intelligence Reporter

"The educated rumor is that the actual death toll is in excess of 7,000."
"When our research is complete, and watertight, we will publish the results along with the sources

"In addition to the evident falsification of the death rolls, at least 5,500 American military personnel have deserted, most in Ireland but more have escaped to Canada and other European countries, none of whom are inclined to cooperate with vengeful American authorities."

No other media is watching DOD figures except Brian Herring?

"Bush Butcher": yeah, that shows an objective article is forthcoming.

"Educated rumor": we don't really know but it won't stop us from publishing this on the Web anyway to be presented as questionable fact by people like Gilder.

5,500 desertions??? Oh really? how did CBS ever miss this? What is that, a 3 to 4% desertion rate? How did they get to Ireland? Are there suddenly thousands of American GIs hangin' out in the pubs? How did PLaban miss that? They're probably all singing "Field of Athenry" in unison. You don't think all those other countries wouldn't be reporting these influxes? I think that's an educated rumor, too.

Sorry, I ain't buyin' it or the $5 Gucci bags at Times Square. This SEEMS like Tokyo Rose stuff.

Slick packaging, though (the website). Makes it seem like REAL FACT.

In fairness, Lorenzo's sites show that DOD is not going out of their way to be straightforward. That is bad enough. Surely there is a reasonable way to go about making an accounting without referring to butchers and rumors.

To be clear, I AM attacking the veracity and nature of the source, and NOT providing my own list of war dead. Woof.

[IRTradRU?]

Woof.

[s1m0n]

In fairness, Lorenzo's sites show that DOD is not going out of their way to be straightforward.

I think any fair-minded examination will show that the commonly-repeated figures have missed a significant proportion of the casualties, and I think we can assume that this situation isn't merely a happy accident, from the Pentagon's POV.

However, I don't know the correct numbers and I haven't looked into the methodology of those who have attempted to come up with an estimate.

Speculation about the motives of those who have looked into this, however, does nothing at all to refute their figures.

Of course anyone who asks that question is likely to be anti-war; if you're in favour of the war, it is a matter of patriotism *not* to ask.

However, that doesn't alter the fact that the official* numbers are inaccurate, presumably significantly so.

*Actually, unless things have changed recently, the commonly repeated numbers aren't actually official in any real way; they're compiled by the media who have added up the casualties announced by the army's briefers. The army announces incident-by-incident figures. The media keeps a running count.

As far as I know, the army has released no official totals, and that is a matter of policy. The army must know that the media's figures are inaccurate.