Scots-Irish music

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Sat May 25, 2002 11:14 am

I am just beginning to look into this topic, in part to learn more about my roots (maternal grandfather was Scots-Irish). I was wondering if anyone knew of musicians, recordings, books, or any other resources related specifically to Scots-Irish music. Any and all leads would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much,
Carol Skinner

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:43 pm

Try:

John Moulden, Ulstersongs,
10 Apollo Walk, Portrush, Co Antrim, BT56 8HQ
Telephone 028 70825080
There's a web site you might find if you type in "Ulstersongs" into a search engine.

Hope that helps,

Boyd.
http://www.strathspeyinmay.com

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:48 pm

....by the way, over here we talk about being of "Ulster-Scots" descent.....have never heard of it being called Scots-Irish.

In the tradition of those with a Scottish heritage living in Ulster, the label "Irish" wasn't [and often still isn't] one that was accepted.

Counties Down, Derry, Antrim and Donegal have the strongest associations with Scotland.

Boyd.

jmssmh · Post by **jmssmh** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:59 pm

In the USA there was a large amount of Ulster/Scot/Irish that came here in the 1700s that settle in the Applician area and are the roots of much American fiddle music. At the time they came here they were called Scot/Irish and many of them fought our Revolutionary war.

Joe

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Sat May 25, 2002 1:54 pm

Thanks very much, Boyd. I will look into it. My mother always referred to herself as Scotch-Irish (and since then I know Scots is the preferred term), but I did note when I was doing a little research the Ulster-Scots was another name. That will help me in my poking around. Joe, my grandfather was a descendent of that wave of immigrants and grew up in Nebo, Kentucky. I'm looking forward to learning more about him and the music.

Thanks again.

Carol

Lizzie · Post by **Lizzie** » Sat May 25, 2002 2:09 pm

Carol. if you have not seen it you might enjoy the movie 'Songcatcher'. The fictious story of a musicologist who goes to Appalachia in 1907 to document the folk songs.
Of course, she falls in love with Aiden Quinn, but who wouldn't?
liz

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Sat May 25, 2002 3:22 pm

Liz,

I'm on my way to the tape store! Thanks.

Carol

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Sat May 25, 2002 8:27 pm

I too decided many years ago to delve into the musical traditions of my area of Appalachia (southwest Virginia, western North Carolina) and just want to tell you that the people in "The Songcatcher" are very much alive here still. You just have to go a litte farther back in the mountains to find them. I'm kin to lots of them.
When looking into my own geneology many years ago I came upon the link between the music I'd grown up with and our ancestors.Plus lots of words and figures of speech that are still used around here(like "kin" or kye) It is truly facinating. East Tennesse State University has some good info along these lines.
Practically every family in my county is decended from Scots, Scots/Irish, English who came here in the 1600s/early 1700s or German(Hessian soldiers who were given the option, after the American Revolution, to either go home with their employers, the British, or stay here and head for the wilderness. Lots stayed.
Actually most of the early settlers here were folks who did not want to be bothered with , for what ever reasons, and when they got here, especially the Scots from the highlands, they decided the terrain was enough like home for them, mostly highlanders,to stay. The isolation of the area for so many years is why I could listen to the songs they brought with them and was raised with many of the words and values they brought also. Hey, why do you think we are so infamous as "moonshiners" in the Appalachian mountains. Those early settlers brought that knowledge with them too, and, handed it down.

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Sat May 25, 2002 9:58 pm

Thanks for that response. Very interesting. I will look into East Tennessee State as well.

Carol

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sun May 26, 2002 1:45 am

My ancestors on my father's side, emigrated from Scotland in the 1600-1700's. They married into the Cherokee Nation at that time, prior to the War for Independence. I wonder what is known of the Scots musical heritage of these people. There was a sizable population of Scots that joined the Cherokee.

A little of my family History [Daniel Ross was father of my great-great-great-great grandfather, Cherokee Supreme Court Justice Andrew Ross, as well as father of Principal Chief John Ross]:

"William Shorey, interpreter for the garrison at Fort Loudoun married a Cherokee woman named Ghi-goo-ie, or "sweetheart". Their daughter Annie Shorey was the grandmother of John Ross. John McDonald, a Scot, married Annie then opened a store in Loudoun, and later a supply post in the Chickamauga Creek near what in 1838 would become Chattanooga. John and Annie had Mary, who married Daniel Ross. See Cherokee Family Ross.

John Ross was the son of Daniel Ross, a Scotsman from Sutherlandshire, making John Ross 1/8 Cherokee. Daniel Ross joined with his father-in-law, John McDonald, Deputy British Agent to the Chickamauga Indians, to operate a trading post that supplied the Chickamaugas with arms and ammunition for raiding the Americans at the beginning of the American Revolutionary War. When peace was made between the Chickamaugas and the Americans, Daniel Ross returned with John McDonald to Rossville, Georgia and built Ross House in 1797.

Daniel Ross established his store on Chattanooga Creek near the foot of Lookout Mountain and operated there until about 1816. Wanting a good education for his nine children, Daniel built a small school and employed John Barbour Davis as the teacher. After attending Davis' school, John Ross went on to a school in Kingston, TN and later to the academy at Maryville, TN."

quoted from: http://www.mindspring.com/~caruso/johnross.htm

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Sun May 26, 2002 7:20 am

Your family's history brings to mind a song by Tim O'Brien on a great CD called The Crossing. It's called "A Mountaineer is Always Free" and it's the story of just such immigrants as your family, marrying into the Cherokee Nation. On the CD, Seamus Egan plays lovely low whistles in harmony; I've heard a live performance in which the incomparable John Williams plays two whistles at once, taped together! Lots of fun. I'm sure you'd find the song interesting.

Thanks for your response. In my professional life I work as a textbook writer and editor (more interesting than it may sound!)and have done some work in the field of American history. It's very satisfying to hear about real people in real families bringing that history to life. Thanks again for sharing that.

Carol

Mark_J · Post by **Mark_J** » Sun May 26, 2002 3:29 pm

On 2002-05-25 14:48, boyd wrote:
....by the way, over here we talk about being of "Ulster-Scots" descent.....have never heard of it being called Scots-Irish.

In the tradition of those with a Scottish heritage living in Ulster, the label "Irish" wasn't [and often still isn't] one that was accepted.

Thanks for commenting, things are very different here in the US. Over here, I have never once heard of Ulster-Scots; Scots-Irish is the only way I have ever heard of that (your?) ethinic group named. I wonder if feelings about the name might have changed since 200 or 300 years when Ulster-Scots migrated to America?

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sun May 26, 2002 5:00 pm

On 2002-05-26 09:20, cskinner wrote:
In my professional life I work as a textbook writer and editor (more interesting than it may sound!)and have done some work in the field of American history.

I've always found history very interesting, and collected the textbooks, but, too often the educators turn what could be an interesting course into a vexing exercise in memorizing every county and its county seat.

carrie · Post by **carrie** » Sun May 26, 2002 5:16 pm

Walden,

Your comment brings to mind one of my favorite headlines from The Onion (the satiric newspaper):

"New textbook brings students' hatred of history alive"

Yes, we in textbook publishing are guilty of that sometimes! But we have the convenience of blaming the educational system that requires students to memorize instead of think and feel.

Thanks for the reminder.
Carol

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Sun May 26, 2002 8:50 pm

Back some time ago, a group of the people Cowtime described met up with a Dutchman or two and a few people who had come over from Ireland during the Famine. Meanwhile, another group of Famine immigrants made their way down from the Midwest through Kansas, finally ending up in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Then, in the year 1951, a representative of the first group fell in love with a representative of the second group. They were married. Nine years later, the man who would later be known as BrassBlower entered this world!

Slainte,
BB