MurphyStout, just a bit more on the great Richard Nixon----
Richard Nixon was a vigorous member of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, a committee which caused a great deal of suffering in this country and actually ruined lives. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Comm ... Activities
No, I do not wish he was president. I had no liking whatsoever for Clinton but I would hope we would strive to do better than any of these.
Actually, his ilk was considered normal. It was the people who didn't like him who were the
freaking wierdo[s]
----that's what the esteemed Spiro Agnew, his Vice President, thought anyway. He had to resign too you know. For taking bribes in Maryland.
Even though I'm young and dumb, has there been a better President since FDR than Nixon?
So if a guy admits to his crimes he's bad, but Bush can lie right and left and hide the truth but because he doesn't admit to anything, he gets to stay in office. Is that right?
You baby boomers are weird. Vietnam is bad but blowing up arabs for cheaper oil is good. What's worse, you guys created my generation and what a sorry lot we are.
I can only speak for the tail end of the Baby Boom ('61), but I won't argue with that.
MurphyStout wrote: Vietnam is bad but blowing up arabs for cheaper oil is good.
What???Stout!! I can't believe you'd say a thing like that! (:roll:)jk...none of the boomers I know well, nor the Xers for that matter, are in that camp.
MurphyStout wrote: What's worse, you guys created my generation and what a sorry lot we are.
Murphy, I am not your mama and I will not clean up your messes. But I have a ShopVac which my dog bites every time it rolls, and you can have it for cheap. I guess I'll keep the hound though.
Jack, there weren't just lies. There are quite a few men who went to prison for their involvement in Watergate. It happened on Nixon's watch and he was actively involved in the coverup - he should have resigned. You don't get to be involved in this kind of crap and have it forgiven because of other good you do. Nixon answered for his lies - will Bush ever have to answer for his? Only time will tell.
As far as my generation leaving yours in a pile of crap - every generation since time began has had to deal with the garbage from previous generations. We may have added a lot of problems to the world, but we didn't invent trouble and bad times, so you don't get to blame it all on us.
Why do you think you can throw everyone of a certain age into a group? Have you noticed political arguments going on at this website? Does everyone agree? Do you think age determines what side these people are on? I guess this is ageism. Prejudice against people who are older. I'll have to get used to it, since I ain't getting younger.
Murphy, you have to know what the heart of the Watergate matter is. The Republican National Committee was actively trying to subvert the election by causing the Democrats to nominate the weakest possible candidate. The break in at the Watergate Hotel was to plant bugs in the Democratic National Committee's offices. The whole thing was a conspiracy to steal the election by denying Americans a viable choice in opposition to Nixon. Nixon's own role was to further subvert the judicial system using political pressure, firings, blackmail and confidential information from the FBI and the IRS to prevent this from coming to light.
Although that was the only impeachable offense, he also prolonged the Viet Nam War for political purposes; Henry Kissinger as much as confessed to that. He did do some good things, maybe some great things, but that does not excuse his wllingness to put his paranoid need for power over all other matters including lives and the law.
BTW, as far as Bush is concerned, I believe him to be a dupe and front man for the neo-cons and possibly also a criminal, along with Rumsfeld and A.G. Gonzalez, for the treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. And I believe that the primary impulse for the war in Iraq was for domestic political gain.
Great presidents since FDR? I think they all had their moments, some more than others, with only the incumbent being a total loss.
Nixon was a petty, small-minded politician who was a disaster as president. Leaving aside the corruption and hypocracy of how he cheated on the election, did a terrible job running the country.
About Vietman, it was apparent to many, maybe most Americans by 1968 that we shouldn't have been there and needed to come home. Nixon approved the bombing of Cambodia and expanded the war. Under his leadership the process of getting out stretched for 5 or 6 yrs and at the cost of many American and Vietnamese lives.
Domestically, the US was going through a significant shift - civil rights, woman's rights, environmentalism etc. and lots of cultural changes. To my way of thinking much of it was good, some wasn't. Nixon fought all of this every step of the way. It was a bad time in the US. The things you mention about education, the underprivelaged, the environment, reducing nuclear build-up etc. were all changing because of many complex factors. Nixon didn't facilitate any of it, he made it worse. Watergate exposed his personal lack of honor and his inability to lead. These two characteristics were completely intertwined. The country as a whole and the politicians in DC recognized this and it was time for him to go.
Good things happened in the late 60s and early 70s in spite of Nixon, not because of him.
MurphyStout wrote:You know I'm young so I don't get what you hippies or whatever you were had against Nixon. Personally, I feel he was the greatest President we've had in the last 50 years. He did more for education, the working man, the underprivelaged, the environment, foriegn relations, he ended the nuclear buildup and started the colapse of the soviet union (even though R#$gan gets all the credit). People loved Clinton but face facts, he was a white nonunionist cracker who hardly lifted a finger for the environment or his fellow human beings. Nixon was the best, too bad he was a freaking wierdo and had to rig an election that he was going to win anyways.
Frankly, I wished that deep throat dude would have kept his big ass mouth shut!
Murphy... next time you come to the Plough we have to talk. Unless you're just pulling our leg.
Walden wrote:Ah! The man that brought down the man that pulled the United States out of Vietnam!
Kennedy was going to end the war in Vietnam in 1966 -- look what they did to him. The truth about most of these things is so well covered up by the Industrial Military Complex and power out of control that you and I will be long gone by the time the facts are common knowledge. Deep throat and the secrets revealed when he came forward are so miniscule compared to the secrets about everything from Pearl Harbor to 9-11 that remains covered up to this day.
jGilder wrote:
Murphy... next time you come to the Plough we have to talk. Unless you're just pulling our leg.
Er ... *cough* .. he is, isn't he?
Don't count on it. Jack's very intense and has very strong opinions about these things. I like him that way - he brings back memories of when I was young...actually I was about his age during Watergate. I doubt I'd have been a demonstrator in those days...we were indoctrinated when we starting working for the FBI about turning in friends/acquaintances for anything that might "Embarrass The Bureau" (I believe I still have that stitched into a sampler somewhere). Even FBI employees at loud parties were reported and admonished (at the least) or received a censure in their file. Our loyalty to God and Country should be unquestioned. Even the slightest humorous remark between clerical employees which might be deemed derogatory to the Bureau or the government was hushed up - you never knew who might report you. Jack would never have lasted.
Tell us something.: I've picked up the tinwhistle again after several years, and have recently purchased a Chieftain v5 from Kerry Whistles that I cannot wait to get (why can't we beam stuff yet, come on Captain Kirk, get me my Low D!)
MurphyStout wrote:You know I'm young so I don't get what you hippies or whatever you were had against Nixon.
Hippies? What the heck do you know about hippies?
Frankly, I wished that deep throat dude would have kept his big ass mouth shut!
Actually, from the pictures...his ass dont look all that big.....(jk)
“First lesson: money is not wealth; Second lesson: experiences are more valuable than possessions; Third lesson: by the time you arrive at your goal it’s never what you imagined it would be so learn to enjoy the process” - unknown
