YOUR family crest!!

[missy]

Tyler wrote:
"......it might help to start as far back as one can go in a given culture and work forward..."

true - but since my understanding of German is limited to dumkauf and daschund, that would probably be prohibitive, too (when my grandfather was alive, he would talk to our dog in German -she should have understood it, cuz she was German, right? - at least that's what HE thought).

Missy

[Tyler]

Tyler wrote:
"......it might help to start as far back as one can go in a given culture and work forward..."

true - but since my understanding of German is limited to dumkauf and daschund, that would probably be prohibitive, too (when my grandfather was alive, he would talk to our dog in German -she should have understood it, cuz she was German, right? - at least that's what HE thought).

Missy

Do you have a community college or small university where you could take German courses. My sister speaks semi-fluent high german, and she always is bragging on about how close it is to English.
I suppose she's right though, because of the Vikings that invaded England in AD 750-1050, and later the Danes. German is one language I have yet to dabble in, due to the fact that it serves me no purpose yet.

[Cynth]

I don't feel that I would be that interested in just having a list of names and birth dates and death dates and places. I wouldn't be able to know the people or really have a connection to them. I guess I would be interested in seeing photographs of relatives, but even that doesn't seem to mean that much to me unless I knew that person. Even if, for example, I could find out something about my father's recent family history, I really doubt that it would mean much to me because it would still just be names of people I didn't know. It doesn't seem as if there would be much chance of stumbling across someone's diary or anything.

I think it is a fine pursuit for those who find it rewarding of course.

[Tyler]

I don't feel that I would be that interested in just having a list of names and birth dates and death dates and places. I wouldn't be able to know the people or really have a connection to them. I guess I would be interested in seeing photographs of relatives, but even that doesn't seem to mean that much to me unless I knew that person. Even if, for example, I could find out something about my father's recent family history, I really doubt that it would mean much to me because it would still just be names of people I didn't know. It doesn't seem as if there would be much chance of stumbling across someone's diary or anything.

I think it is a fine pursuit for those who find it rewarding of course.

This is why the folklore of your family and line are important. It brings them ALIVE in ways that even meeting someone in person cannot do.
This is probably a bad example, but I never knew my grandfather. he died when my father was five years old...but as I grew to adulthood, people would say "you look so much like Wayne," or say that some of my behavior or mannerisms belonged to him. He was very widely loved,and even to this day, there are some who see my name (Tyler Wayne Morris) and ask if I was related...then they would usually procede to tell me tales about my grandfather that I never knew. With each tale that people would tell, though, I could imagine him more clearly and close to me. Somehow he became a part of me, though dead he be, and seems to speak to me in my soul. I suppose that is where the desire to find more ancestors came from.

You never know what you might find; you may find one or two kept a journal...

[emmline]

Such skeptics. Sheesh. And I suppose none of you have ever bought a tome such as "Who's Who Among North American Veebleweezers" for a mere $29.95?

[Tyler]

Such skeptics. Sheesh. And I suppose none of you have ever bought a tome such as "Who's Who Among North American Veebleweezers" for a mere $29.95?

Only when I found that they were related to the Hubblebucks Poodoosayyers of northern sub-Bohemia.

[Wormdiet]

"legitimacy" means that one of your ancestors bore ams in the past, and they descended directly to you. It does NOT stem from having the same last name.

That's not %100 true, actually.

I meant that the ARMS themeselves are passed from elder to younger generations by inheritance. . . does your case somehow not follow that pattern? Not sure I see a contradiction here. . .

one of the common threads in each story follows; There were four brothers at one time (year disputable, not totally sure yet, but hopefully on our next trip we can find out) there were four brothers Morris who had a dispute (reasons are various and sundry) who parted ways in angst towards each other, and altered their crest to be different fromt the other.
There are other stories that vary greatly from those... The word of mouth bit is a little hard to research, so we dont know for sure what really happened....
I may be totally off base, I dont know.

Technically, theoretically speaking, arms between brothers are normally "differenced" to show that their bearers are different people. . . whether or not there has been a family spat. This is certainly true in Britain, less true on the continent.

A British coat of arms ideally represents not even one family but one individual, (usually male) who transmits the ams to his firstborn son undifferenced. Eveybody else gets a minor variation.

Thus, whenever you see a Scottish lion or the English leopards, it's *supposed* to mean that Queen Lizzy II is physically present, because those symbols are her personal arms. By extension, it's incorrect for Joe Sixpack to have a lion license plate just because he has some Scottish blood. It's more proper to show one's national loyalties with a St. Andrews or St. George's cross.

I personally don;t care too much about proper usage, but it is mildly interesting.

[Tyler]

"legitimacy" means that one of your ancestors bore ams in the past, and they descended directly to you. It does NOT stem from having the same last name.

That's not %100 true, actually.

I meant that the ARMS themeselves are passed from elder to younger generations by inheritance. . . does your case somehow not follow that pattern? Not sure I see a contradiction here. . .

one of the common threads in each story follows; There were four brothers at one time (year disputable, not totally sure yet, but hopefully on our next trip we can find out) there were four brothers Morris who had a dispute (reasons are various and sundry) who parted ways in angst towards each other, and altered their crest to be different fromt the other.
There are other stories that vary greatly from those... The word of mouth bit is a little hard to research, so we dont know for sure what really happened....
I may be totally off base, I dont know.

Technically, theoretically speaking, arms between brothers are normally "differenced" to show that their bearers are different people. . . whether or not there has been a family spat. This is certainly true in Britain, less true on the continent.

A British coat of arms ideally represents not even one family but one individual, (usually male) who transmits the ams to his firstborn son undifferenced. Eveybody else gets a minor variation.

Thus, whenever you see a Scottish lion or the English leopards, it's *supposed* to mean that Queen Lizzy II is physically present, because those symbols are her personal arms. By extension, it's incorrect for Joe Sixpack to have a lion license plate just because he has some Scottish blood. It's more proper to show one's national loyalties with a St. Andrews or St. George's cross.

I personally don;t care too much about proper usage, but it is mildly interesting.

These variations were not what one might expect from brothers, in the sense that you speak of.

[susnfx]

I don't feel that I would be that interested in just having a list of names and birth dates and death dates and places. I wouldn't be able to know the people or really have a connection to them. I guess I would be interested in seeing photographs of relatives, but even that doesn't seem to mean that much to me unless I knew that person. Even if, for example, I could find out something about my father's recent family history, I really doubt that it would mean much to me because it would still just be names of people I didn't know. It doesn't seem as if there would be much chance of stumbling across someone's diary or anything.

I think it is a fine pursuit for those who find it rewarding of course.

I've got relatives who have done genealogy for decades and have genealogy books (not the same as a regular book book). You'd think they'd be boring, but actually they're not. Yes, most of it is names and dates, but even those are interesting to me. And then there are the notes: an ancestor of mine in the 1600s has "burned at the stake" noted by the name; another (also in the 1600s) was Lord Mayor of Limerick.
My grandmother wrote two histories of several of her ancestors, piecing things together from memories of relatives, letters, ship passenger lists, etc. - and there are photos which can be found from quite far back. To me they're fascinating.

Susan

[Cynth]

Well, yeah, if you have an ancestor who was burned at the stake, that would be interesting. But I have a strong feeling that mine were all diggin' turnips pretty much full time. Of course, you never know.

[jsluder]

I find it amusing that the site thinks my German surname (Sluder) is a variant of the English surname Slade. :roll:

[Wormdiet]

These variations were not what one might expect from brothers, in the sense that you speak of.

Interesting! Are there any images on the web we could look at?

As one could tell from my avatar, I'm big on heraldry.

[cowtime]

Genelogy is fun. I came up with this ancestor- Frankie Silver who was hanged in NC for chopping up her husband. He ended up with three graves because they kept finding more of him as time passed. :roll:

http://www.frankiesilver.com/

Intresting little tidbits like that can crop up from time to time.

[missy]

Cowtime - have you ever read Sharyn McCrumb's book "The Ballad of Frankie Silver"?

http://www.sharynmccrumb.com/ballad_frankie_silver.html


Missy

[NicoMoreno]

Tyler wrote:
"......it might help to start as far back as one can go in a given culture and work forward..."

true - but since my understanding of German is limited to dumkauf and daschund, that would probably be prohibitive, too (when my grandfather was alive, he would talk to our dog in German -she should have understood it, cuz she was German, right? - at least that's what HE thought).

Missy

Do you have a community college or small university where you could take German courses. My sister speaks semi-fluent high german, and she always is bragging on about how close it is to English.
I suppose she's right though, because of the Vikings that invaded England in AD 750-1050, and later the Danes. German is one language I have yet to dabble in, due to the fact that it serves me no purpose yet.

That isn't strictly accurate. English is close to German, because it is a germanic language. It's even closer to Dutch. The Angles and the Saxons were german tribes.


On another note, if you are Norwegian (or Danish I suppose) it should actually be very easy to trace your ancestry. I know that I go back to a certain Pal Valkonen of 1500. This is because the Luthern church kept very, very good records of birth and death and children and such.

This is pretty peculiar, when you learn that in Norway (up until the late 1800s at least), the practise was for the children to adobt their father's name as their surname. So Hans' sons became Hansens and his daughters Hansdatters. (Dead serious here). This meant there are many succeeding generations of Hans Henriksen, then Henrik Hansen, then Hans Henriksen, then Erik Hansen, etc...

On a somwhat interesting note, Pal's son was Lars Palsen, and his Son I think was Erik Larsen. Anyway, that's Norwegians for you.