The Beatles vs. The Monkees

[Cynth]

I don't think Buddy Holly was influenced by the Beatles. But I'm not an expert.

[dubhlinn]

I don't think Buddy Holly was influenced by the Beatles. But I'm not an expert.

'Twas the other way round.
Holly was a huge influence on the Beatles.

Slan,
D.

[Cynth]

Yep, that seems like what I thought.

[susnfx]

There were a few steps in between Perry Como and the Beatles... Buddy Holly, Elvis, etc., etc., etc.....

Holly & The Beatles were getting inspiration from each other, so was Elvis.

Buddy Holly would have had difficulty getting inspiration from the Beatles since he died in 1959 and the Beatles didn't start making a name for themselves (outside Liverpool, I suppose) in the early sixties. And I was speaking of early Elvis - pre-Beatles.

Susan

[dubhlinn]

Indeed..

" in 1976, McCartney inaugurated Buddy Holly Week in London, founded on what would have been Holly's 40th birthday and marked with an annual celebrity party; his lifelong passion for the music of this rock'n'roll pioneer was also reflected in his aquisition of Holly's publishing catalogue. Ever the astute businessman, McCartney also cannily bought the rights to an off-Broadway musical he had seen in America, and this investment reaped huge returns when the musical was adapted into the smash-hit feature film Grease."

A snippet from;

http://www.answers.com/topic/wings-band

Slan,
D.

[The Weekenders]

A very interesting view no doubt..
I don't see a vast difference between "Culturally influential" and "Musically important".
I have not got the smarts to get into a semantic argument here but I have always thought that a good musician, with a tendancy towards improvisation, would be equally at home with the Beatles music as with Bossa Nova.
It's all down to building on what you've got and using your imagination, is it not?
A serious knowledge of your instrument would help, I suppose

Slan,
D.

True, Dub, but you have to be a hell of a lot better guitar player to play the Brazilian music than Beatles riffs. I know because I have done both.

[Guest]

Indeed..

" in 1976, McCartney inaugurated Buddy Holly Week in London, founded on what would have been Holly's 40th birthday and marked with an annual celebrity party; his lifelong passion for the music of this rock'n'roll pioneer was also reflected in his aquisition of Holly's publishing catalogue. Ever the astute businessman, McCartney also cannily bought the rights to an off-Broadway musical he had seen in America, and this investment reaped huge returns when the musical was adapted into the smash-hit feature film Grease."

A snippet from;

http://www.answers.com/topic/wings-band

Slan,
D.

The Beatles are dead finished caput gone fvcked ...

and good riddance!

[dubhlinn]

A very interesting view no doubt..
I don't see a vast difference between "Culturally influential" and "Musically important".
I have not got the smarts to get into a semantic argument here but I have always thought that a good musician, with a tendancy towards improvisation, would be equally at home with the Beatles music as with Bossa Nova.
It's all down to building on what you've got and using your imagination, is it not?
A serious knowledge of your instrument would help, I suppose

Slan,
D.

True, Dub, but you have to be a hell of a lot better guitar player to play the Brazilian music than Beatles riffs. I know because I have done both.

I never said it was gonna be easy

Toasty,
Your wisdom is always appreciated

Slan,
D.

[djm]

Wombat, yes I got the link. Thx muchly.

RUtrad, if you're going to bring up the Archies, you need to go to the source - Andy Kim. (Baby, we're good together .... etc.) :roll:

djm

[IRTradRU?]

Buddy Holly would have had difficulty getting inspiration from the Beatles since he died in 1959 and the Beatles didn't start making a name for themselves (outside Liverpool, I suppose) in the early sixties. And I was speaking of early Elvis - pre-Beatles.

Susan

Here:

"At least the first forty songs we wrote were Buddy Holly influenced".
- Paul McCartney

[StewySmoot]

Beatles?
Monkees?
Same topic?

Dont make me laugh.


If you werent there, I cant explain it. If you were there and need clarification, what the hell were you smoking cos I dont want it!

[Charlene]

I think that the minute you start playing Beatles music, you have to go through a lot of careful motions to either not be imitative nor "wreck" the tune, whereas Bossa and samba pretty much allow innovation, improvisation etc etc...

The Beatles were officially 'mainstream' the first time they were played on the Muzak system in the elevator.

Fair point about 'Bossa', though. There's only so much that can be done with so many styles of music.

The first time I felt old was when I heard a Beatles song in the elevator!

My mother was the one in my family who really went nuts over the Beatles - and she believed all that "Paul is dead" stuff. Nowadays I enjoy their earlier music more than their later music.

But I used to love to watch the Monkees TV show.

So I can't really say who's the best - they were both ok.

[IRTradRU?]

The first time I felt old was when I heard a Beatles song in the elevator!

"Eleanor Rigby" never sounded the same to me again after hearing it in the lift.

My mother was the one in my family who really went nuts over the Beatles - and she believed all that "Paul is dead" stuff. Nowadays I enjoy their earlier music more than their later music.

Well, my Mom is probably a bit older than yours... my Mom was in the big band era.

Though I was completely put off the Beatles when I returned home from school one afternoon and my Mom was sitting in front of the stereo, intently listening to my older brother's 45 RPM copy of "Let it Be". She was really interested the lyrics, and asked me if I'd ever really listened to the words.

[Stu H]

Beatles v Monkees

Well since most of this thread has turned into a debate about the extent of the impact of the Beatles on world music, I think the original question has been answered - mind you we were never really comparing like with like.

BTW I seem to remember Lennon once saying that one of his biggest influences was Dylan.

[Wombat]

Okay, more thoughts about this Wombat.

Right now, whose music do you think is being played more in the world?
Bossa Nova or Beatles?

Gee, good question. I'd have said the Beatles if you'd asked me a few days ago but I'm beginning to think I simply don't know bossa nova well enough to be sure. It's a bit bizarre really because I have more Brazilian friends than friends from any other Latin American country and could once even cook a full Brazilian meal thanks to Brazilians I shared a house with. I certainly agree about the influence of Charlie Byrd but my knowledge of the music is pretty much restricted to that early 60s period: Gilberto, Jobim, Getz, Byrd etc. I've never made a serious attempt to play the music. Brazil is about the size of the US and if it doesn't get the acknowledgment it deserves that might be due to the fact that everywhere else in the Americas people speak Spanish or English rather than Portugese. My Brazilian friends tended to play other styles of music to me, especially folk styles from the North East—a lot more raw and less sophisticated than bossa.

I discussed this with a work chum and she felt that the Beatles were more culturally influential but that Bossa Nova is more musically important... or at least, is "musician's music" that probably does not get the respect that it deserves. Debatable of course but an interesting view.

Debateable, for sure, but still very interesting. You have me thinking it's time to go out and buy some more bossa nova and listen harder.

I think that the minute you start playing Beatles music, you have to go through a lot of careful motions to either not be imitative nor "wreck" the tune, whereas Bossa and samba pretty much allow innovation, improvisation etc etc...

Yeah, I don't think that Beatles music is really a fertile vehicle for improvisation. I think their influence is quite different: how to write a good rock song. I've found myself doodling with some Harrison lines on twelve string and there I have the idea for a song—not a Beatles clone but I can't deny the influence. I bet that's happened to hundreds, probably thousands of musicians. I think Dylan has a similar influence; my favourite Australian writer/singer is Paul Kelly and I hear Dylan in just about every song he writes, even though the words could only be Kelly.

On the issue of garage rock, I think there is a lot to the idea that the basic (trashy?) stuff we continue to like is what we grew up with. I think that we can't help but form an attachment to the soundtrack to our youth. But, years later, it's a lot harder to form an attachment to the sound track to somebody else's youth.

BTW, thanks Weeks and Dubhlinn for the incredibly kind things you said about me earlier. Really, for me, this pub isn't about competition or being right but about the friendly exchange of ideas with people with different musical pasts but a shared interest in celebrating the music. I think we all learn heaps from eachother and I love dropping in for a laugh, a bit of friendly joshing, the day's drama and the free exchange of ideas with people you respect. I'm privileged to have friends like you. With a thread like this, nobody's going to be proved right or wrong in their general outlook: general outlooks aren't like that and people have been mature enough to realise it. But everyone brings an idea or three, a slightly different perspective and we all go away the better for sharing it. It can be a bit expensive if you follow up everybody's listening suggestions of course.