The Beatles vs. The Monkees

[Flyingcursor]

Wombat is that for real? Because I'd like to think so. At least it would make sense.

The reason some of The Monkees tunes were good is because the studio could hire good musicians. Listen to the bass line in "Pleasant Valley Sunday". Great stuff. There's some good countryish guitar in "Last Train to Clarksville." . I always liked the chord changes in "What Am I doing hanging 'round.".

Mike was the only one with any musical talent. When but a lad of about 14 I had all of their albums. What a nerd. I also loved Herman's Hermits.

Does anyone remember when Mike Nesmith did his own album. He had a relatively popular song that said something about dancing by the light of the moon. I just can't recall.

Check out http://www.nezfriends.com for more info ono Mike Nesmith.

[missy]

aw common - who of MY age can resist doing "that walk" when someone starts singing:
"Here they come......
Walkin' down the street....."


Missy

[Dale]

Incomprehensible lyrics are a part of rock & roll tradition. I think perhaps the band "America" should get the lifetime achievement award.

On the first part of the journey
I was looking at all the life
There were plants and birds and rocks and things
There was sand and hills and rings
The first thing I met was a fly with a buzz
And the sky with no clouds
The heat was hot and the ground was dry
But the air was full of sound

I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la ...

After two days in the desert sun
My skin began to turn red
After three days in the desert fun
I was looking at a river bed
And the story it told of a river that flowed
Made me sad to think it was dead

You see I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la ...

After nine days I let the horse run free
'Cause the desert had turned to sea
There were plants and birds and rocks and things
there was sand and hills and rings
The ocean is a desert with it's life underground
And a perfect disguise above
Under the cities lies a heart made of ground
But the humans will give no love

You see I've been through the desert on a horse with no name
It felt good to be out of the rain
In the desert you can remember your name
'Cause there ain't no one for to give you no pain
La, la ...

Yeah. Ok. Right.

Dale

[jim stone]

I think this one is Shakespeare,
by the way the tune works well on the whistle:

It was a lover and his lass
With a hey and a ho and a heynonnyno,
That o're the field green fields did pass,
In springtime, in springtime,
The only perfect ringtime
Sing ringadingading
Sing ringadingading
Sing ringadingading
True lovers love the spring.

[gonzo914]

Incomprehensible lyrics are a part of rock & roll tradition.

I kind of remember those songs --

Daydream believer's melting in the park
and the pinball wizard's flowing down.
Someone left the horse out in the rain
And I don't think that I can name it
Cause my chevy's at the levy
And white rabbit is a whiter shade of pale.

Of course, I only kind of remember a lot of things from then. A lot of stuff tends to run together.

[missy]

yeah - but gonzo, does it have a good beat and can you dance to it?

Missy

[izzarina]

Back on topic, the Beatles are the best ever. No comparison.

I have to agree with you completely Peggy. In High School, my locker was totally covered with pictures of "my boys". My then boyfriend (now husband) has always known that he's had to compete But my musical choice was in direct contrast to my friends' who had pictures of Madonna, Michael Jackson, and George Michael in THEIR lockers. I'd like to think that I was the one with the better taste in music

Where's ad? I wonder if she liked the Beatles too? She must have, her being my LLT and all that.

[djm]

I think this one is Shakespeare,
by the way the tune works well on the whistle:

It was a lover and his lass
With a hey and a ho and a heynonnyno,
That o're the field green fields did pass,
In springtime, in springtime,
The only perfect ringtime
Sing ringadingading
Sing ringadingading
Sing ringadingading
True lovers love the spring.

I was watching a story on the news the other night. Apparently, some stage producer from Stratford, Ontario has hired the Bare Naked Ladies to put the whole Midsummer's Dream to modern music, and they were singing this particular tune.

To put the Beatles/Monkees debate in perspective, the Beatles were the leading wave, whereas the Monkees were merely a reaction to that wave. The vid clip is a good example of this. Someone paid some top American commercial song writers to emulate the Beatles (not too hard for someone with the chops), but the Monkees never at any time led the way with new musical stylings of their own, just copies. That's not to say that the Beatles were wholey original, but their treatment of the music was their own.

djm

[Wombat]

Wombat is that for real? Because I'd like to think so. At least it would make sense.

Yes it is for real. I think with a bit of detective work you could probably track down the album unless I was hearing the tapes from a concert. When I heard those words I was driving and almost drove off the road I was laughing so much. Of course, they could be the words he had in mind all along. Alternatively, he might have invented them on the fly to amuse the band or it might have been an obscure band in joke.

But yes, that's what he sang.

[amar]

Back on topic, the Beatles are the best ever. No comparison.

I have to agree with you completely Peggy. In High School, my locker was totally covered with pictures of "my boys". My then boyfriend (now husband) has always known that he's had to compete But my musical choice was in direct contrast to my friends' who had pictures of Madonna, Michael Jackson, and George Michael in THEIR lockers. I'd like to think that I was the one with the better taste in music

Where's ad? I wonder if she liked the Beatles too? She must have, her being my LLT and all that.

ad loved duran duran. haha.

[Lorenzo]

Absolutely no comparison...the Beatles were by far the best. Question is...who was the better song writer: Paul or John? I liked the thoughts that came out of John head, but I preferred the way Paul could play and could write music. They were a great combination and the songs they collaborated on show it.

[izzarina]

Back on topic, the Beatles are the best ever. No comparison.

I have to agree with you completely Peggy. In High School, my locker was totally covered with pictures of "my boys". My then boyfriend (now husband) has always known that he's had to compete But my musical choice was in direct contrast to my friends' who had pictures of Madonna, Michael Jackson, and George Michael in THEIR lockers. I'd like to think that I was the one with the better taste in music

Where's ad? I wonder if she liked the Beatles too? She must have, her being my LLT and all that.

ad loved duran duran. haha.

Of course she did. John Taylor made that band, btw (and ad would totally agree with me )

[emmline]

They did have some good songs, but just the other day, the wife and I heard "Daydream Believer", but covered by Anne Murray.... what in the name of all that is holy is that song supposed to be about?!?

Awww....it's about earnest kids just starting out in life. What are you, a cynic?

p.s. I used to play the Monkees for my kids when they were little...nowadays I have no Monkees on my iTunes, but quite a few Beatles--much more depth and staying power there, but the Monkees were fun. I remember watching the show when I was a kid.

[The Weekenders]

Absolutely no comparison...the Beatles were by far the best. Question is...who was the better song writer: Paul or John? I liked the thoughts that came out of John head, but I preferred the way Paul could play and could write music. They were a great combination and the songs they collaborated on show it.

They were better as a team. Some, if not most, of their solo written songs suck. Each have catchy elements but are deficient. McCartney's solo stuff can be so syrupy that you want to puke. Some of Lennon's anthems are the height of limousine liberal hypocrisy. I suppose Lennon is the better though as an individual song composer though McCartneys melodies are better. They were both whiny.

I think Baby Boomers overrate the Beatles in the long run because they are so socially intertwined with the times. They did have a brilliant few years in crafting their music hall-cum-rock stuff sound, though. I was a pretty big fan, played and sang the tunes on the guitar and so on. But I also liked the Kinks, Stones, Animals, Who, etc who actually played rock-n-roll.

I think that if you zoom out a bit, you find that there was some kind of simultaneous explosion of post-Industrial musical expression around the world in those days, each resulting in some pretty exciting music: Surf Music in Calif, Elvis (though earlier), the British Invasion, Bossa Nova in Brasil. I remember once reading the 1965 was some kind of peak year for GM, too. Something about those days....

But in going ga-ga over the Beatles, I have come to feel that it was some kind of cultural treason in the long run; to like them singing Long Tall Sally when I am a native of the country where that genre came from. I remember vividly people wanting to look and be British because of 'em. A lot of black Amercian musicians sure felt stiffed. Heck, Ricky Nelson and Pat Boone had already done it within the country, for that matter.

At Casa de Weekender, you are much more likely to hear Dick Dale, the Ventures and the Lost Legends of Surf Guitar than the Beatles when its time to spin the retro clock back. I like the sense of discovery of the new toy: the electric guitar.

[Lorenzo]

They were better as a team. Some, if not most, of their solo written songs suck. Each have catchy elements but are deficient. McCartney's solo stuff can be so syrupy that you want to puke. Some of Lennon's anthems are the height of limousine liberal hypocrisy. I suppose Lennon is the better though as an individual song composer though McCartneys melodies are better. They were both whiny.

I've read about the credit issues over their songs. Paul probably did write 80-90% of the songs on his own, it's just that they had a deal to use both their names. Now Paul wants to make it known that he alone wrote great tunes like Yesterday, The Long and Winding Road, Hey Jude, and a ton of other ones. You can listen to their styles and tell the difference.

I don't think they were whiney or syrupy. Come on, don't just broadly classify them, name those tunes!