Chord Accompaniment for Irish music - how to do?

[Kar]

I'm cross-posting (orginal post on the whistle forum)

Hey all--

I've been playing fiddle far more than whistles these days, but also got sidetracked into the ukulele, and just picked up a nice tenor the other day. I thought, hey, wouldn't it be fun to accompany people on the uke?

Here's my question: how do I do that?

I love Irish music, but most of the repetoire was so hopelessly beyond me as a beginning whistler that I never learned it. As a fiddler, I'm mostly a violinist (meaning I'm getting classically trained) and I'm sure I'll forray into folk and even Irish at some point, but I'm still new enough to need to stick with basic technique for now and not try and learn a lot of fiddling styles.

So, I don't know a lot of Irish tunes, but I'd love to be able to sit in on a session with my uke (or even guitar, which I also sometimes play). How does one know what chords to play? I've *sort of* familiar with the concepts of I-IV-V, but never been able to quite get that solidly into my thick skull, nor I have ever tried in a REAL life, with other musicians.

It seems like, if most of the time Irish music is in D or G, I should be able to play good-sounding chords by listening, right? But HOW?

Is there a good book that anyone can recommend on learning how to do this--preferrably without a TON of theory?

Or can someone post some helpful info?

Or is there a nice Bay area person who wants to meet me in person and help me?

[djm]

Depends on how you tune your uke. If you tune it like the top four strings of a guitar, which you say you know how to play, it should be pretty easy to use the same chords. Somehow, I can see uke taking its place beside banjos and bouzoukis as one of the favoured instruments at sessions of the future. :roll:

djm

[fel bautista]

then ther's the low-ukele with an extended scale ( it could go on...)

[Baglady]

I will list the chord groups from the most used to the least.

1. Key of D: D G Em/A Almost always used in this order.

2. Key of G: G C D or G Em D if it sounds better

3. Key of Am: Am G with an occasional Em

4. Key of Em: Em D

5. Key of A: A G D or A D whichever sounds best

6. Not sure what key but starts with D and has a strong secondary A chord: D A D G A D

7. Key of Bm: Bm A

Quietly play a key chord with the first note in the phrase. When you find the one that fits use the chord progression suggested above.

If it sounds good play it.

More important is getting the right hand rythm right.

Jigs come in three beats: ONE two three, ONE two three

Reels come in four beats: ONE two three four, ONE two three four

And follow the tempo set by the melody. Don't try to slow it down to where you are more comfortable. You are Backup and not melody.

Play with CDs and people who know what they are doing and listen as you are playing so you don't gum things up.

[SteveShaw]

You're getting good advice. I'd also say that it would be a good idea to get a handful of tunes really under your belt - you know both the melody and a tasty (but simple) accompaniment inside out. In our sessions over the years I've come up against two superb guitarists from other genres who think they can just sit in without having heard the tunes and accompany well. They can't, and such a guy can ruin a session for everyone else. You need to know every tune you accompany really well, even when you get good. The only exception to this is if you're really only pretending to be Kar and are really Arty McGlynn in disguise

Some bands on CD don't always play tunes in the keys you'd expect in sessions - often everything is a semitone up, or occasionally they alter the key to get a certain "lift." It's never a great idea to use just a single source of a tune anyway!

All the best

Steve

[Wormdiet]

You're getting good advice. I'd also say that it would be a good idea to get a handful of tunes really under your belt - you know both the melody and a tasty (but simple) accompaniment inside out. In our sessions over the years I've come up against two superb guitarists from other genres who think they can just sit in without having heard the tunes and accompany well. They can't, and such a guy can ruin a session for everyone else. You need to know every tune you accompany really well, even when you get good. The only exception to this is if you're really only pretending to be Kar and are really Arty McGlynn in disguise

Some bands on CD don't always play tunes in the keys you'd expect in sessions - often everything is a semitone up, or occasionally they alter the key to get a certain "lift." It's never a great idea to use just a single source of a tune anyway!

All the best

Steve

I find that, when listening to albums, the chordal accompaniment can absolutely make or break a tune. for instance, the backup work on Lunasa's first album is phenominal (IMO). But on Redwood, they play a version of the Foxhunter's with this descending chordal arrangement that sounds lifted straight from the weather channel. it's smarmy, smoove, wussified and utterly awful for that tune.

so there.

[Kar]

Baglady, great advice! I'll try that at home with CD's.

My uke is actually a tenor, but standard My Dog Has Fleas tuning. Luckily, it can be played pretty quietly. Except at a very quiet session, I can't imagine very many people other than me and the person I'm next to maybe hearing it if I'm cautiously working out the chords.

And I should revise my statement: I do know quite a few of the more played Irish tunes. I just don't know HOW to play them on any instrument or what they are called. I know 'em when I hear 'em. That type of thing.

Some say the uke is experiencing a comeback. Will it begin to show up at sessions? Who knows?

And sadly, I am Kar, and not Arty McGlynn in disguise.

[Baglady]

And I should revise my statement: I do know quite a few of the more played Irish tunes. I just don't know HOW to play them on any instrument or what they are called. I know 'em when I hear 'em. That type of thing.

Good to hear. I was about to post a harangue about people who go into sessions without an understanding of the music and the effect backup instruments have on the melody and how they think they can just bang along and not be a problem when they are really a big problem and how you need to be sensitive to the accents a melody player is putting in a tune and really, really, really remember you are not leading but following and stuff but I'm too tired right now. I think I'll take a nap.

[Nanohedron]

Play with CDs and people who know what they are doing and listen as you are playing so you don't gum things up.

I would particularly urge the first option alone until you've found your legs, and try for an approach that you would want to have if someone were accompanying YOU. For me, the challenge is to go beyond just plonking at chords, yet not make it too busy.

Just my $.02USD.

[Martin Milner]

You're getting good advice. I'd also say that it would be a good idea to get a handful of tunes really under your belt - you know both the melody and a tasty (but simple) accompaniment inside out. In our sessions over the years I've come up against two superb guitarists from other genres who think they can just sit in without having heard the tunes and accompany well. They can't, and such a guy can ruin a session for everyone else. You need to know every tune you accompany really well, even when you get good. The only exception to this is if you're really only pretending to be Kar and are really Arty McGlynn in disguise

Some bands on CD don't always play tunes in the keys you'd expect in sessions - often everything is a semitone up, or occasionally they alter the key to get a certain "lift." It's never a great idea to use just a single source of a tune anyway!

All the best

Steve

I find that, when listening to albums, the chordal accompaniment can absolutely make or break a tune. for instance, the backup work on Lunasa's first album is phenominal (IMO). But on Redwood, they play a version of the Foxhunter's with this descending chordal arrangement that sounds lifted straight from the weather channel. it's smarmy, smoove, wussified and utterly awful for that tune.

so there.

That's very interesting, I liked the first Lunasa album the best, and Redwood the least - so much did I not like it I've barely listened to it twice. It may be the accompaniment that was spoiling it for me.

Now I'll have to give it another listen, and see if that was it.

cheers Wormy!

[Wormdiet]

You're getting good advice. I'd also say that it would be a good idea to get a handful of tunes really under your belt - you know both the melody and a tasty (but simple) accompaniment inside out. In our sessions over the years I've come up against two superb guitarists from other genres who think they can just sit in without having heard the tunes and accompany well. They can't, and such a guy can ruin a session for everyone else. You need to know every tune you accompany really well, even when you get good. The only exception to this is if you're really only pretending to be Kar and are really Arty McGlynn in disguise

Some bands on CD don't always play tunes in the keys you'd expect in sessions - often everything is a semitone up, or occasionally they alter the key to get a certain "lift." It's never a great idea to use just a single source of a tune anyway!

All the best

Steve

I find that, when listening to albums, the chordal accompaniment can absolutely make or break a tune. for instance, the backup work on Lunasa's first album is phenominal (IMO). But on Redwood, they play a version of the Foxhunter's with this descending chordal arrangement that sounds lifted straight from the weather channel. it's smarmy, smoove, wussified and utterly awful for that tune.

so there.

That's very interesting, I liked the first Lunasa album the best, and Redwood the least - so much did I not like it I've barely listened to it twice. It may be the accompaniment that was spoiling it for me.

Now I'll have to give it another listen, and see if that was it.

cheers Wormy!

TO be fair, Redwood has some very good tracks - 1, 2, and 4 leap to mind. It's not as rawk as 'Lunasa' but it's still very good. The "Fest Noz" piece is great.

[feadogin]

That's very interesting, I liked the first Lunasa album the best, and Redwood the least - so much did I not like it I've barely listened to it twice. It may be the accompaniment that was spoiling it for me.

Is the first one the one with John McSherry? I'm not a Lunasa fan, but I've been thinking of picking that one up, cause I really like McSherry's playing.

Justine

[Tyghress]

[quote="Wormdiet]It's not as rawk as 'Lunasa' but it's still very good. The "Fest Noz" piece is great.[/quote]

Kindly define 'rawk'.

Thx,
Tyg

[Wormdiet]

That's very interesting, I liked the first Lunasa album the best, and Redwood the least - so much did I not like it I've barely listened to it twice. It may be the accompaniment that was spoiling it for me.

Is the first one the one with John McSherry? I'm not a Lunasa fan, but I've been thinking of picking that one up, cause I really like McSherry's playing.

Justine

The self-titled one has McSherry, I believe. I love it.

[Wormdiet]

[quote="Wormdiet]It's not as rawk as 'Lunasa' but it's still very good. The "Fest Noz" piece is great.

Kindly define 'rawk'.

Thx,
Tyg[/quote]



Well, in this context, fairly modern arrangements with a very aggressive feel to them. The bassline (on a upright) could almost fit in with a punk band. Not a lot of major chord accompaniment - more minor and straight droning. Fast and in-your-face.

On the album in question, the renditions of Lord Mayo, Promenade, and Dub reel would typify "rawk."

Does that help?