My thoughts on Byrne vs Hamilton

[MurphyStout]

Hi guys, cskinner was generious enough to loan me a Brian Byrne flute to try out for a few months. I’ve been playing it along with my Hammy for a while now and I’d thought I’d share my thoughts with you guys.

Disclaimer- Most of these things are my opinions so take them with a grain of salt. And with flutes, it’s the player not the flute so a player will sound the same basically on any flute he/she plays. And the Hamilton is my flute so there will be some natural built in bias in my post.

Here’s some pics, the one on top is the hammy.
http://www.solisstyle.com/ims//pic.php? ... Ct&i=29128
http://www.solisstyle.com/ims//pic.php? ... Ct&i=29129

FACTS

Model style- The Byrne is modeled after a medium holed Rudall and Rose and the Hammy is one of the “true” Pratten designs still being produced.

Hole size- The Byrne’s holes are a great deal smaller that the Hamilton’s. In fact, a few of the Byrnes holes are so big that hammy holes are a least double the area of the Byrne holes. Which will effect volume.

Volume- The Byrne is quite a bit quieter than the Hammy, this has it’s ups and downs. I took both flutes with me to a few sessions and I quickly swapped the Byrne for the Hammy cause I could hardly hear myself on the Byrne. The Hammy is a good flute for fighting back against all those loud instruments like Boxes, and Pipes. The Byrne is great for blending in.

Embouchure holes- The Byrne is more round and the Hammy is more oval. I’m not sure what that does but I think it should be mentioned.

Craftsmanship- They both are beautiful well made flutes. What else is there to say.

Tuning- The Byrne is noticeably more intune than my hammy; especially the F# which is fairly flat on my hammy. I don’t mind it so much cause the out of tuneness gives my hammy an older, wild sound with a bit of character. But the Byrne was great to play along with other instruments.

Breath Requirements- The Byrne required less air than the hammy, which was nice because it didn’t require so much effort to keep the tune going, But on the other hand the hammy is nice because it will take all the air you can give it, which the Byrne will not. This allows the Byrne to be a bit smoother, but gives the Hammy more dynamics.

Weight- The Byrne is slightly heavier than the Hammy. I think this is due to the fact that more wood is cut out the Hammy for the bigger bore.

MY OPINIONS

First of I must say that I wasn’t wild about the Byrne when I first got it but since then I’ve really warmed up to the flute and I think it’s a great player. In fact, I’d say I like it as much as my Hammy, maybe. The bottom line is that they are both great flutes.

The car analogy works very well with these two flutes. The Byrne is an automatic (smooth, consistant, comfortable) and the Hammy is a manual (dynamic, responsive, powerful). I think the Byrne is a very easy blower in comparision to the hammy, once you’ve the embouchure for it. The Byrne does require a refined embouchure. The D’s are very good, if different. The Byrne has a solid, dry D which is very nice and the Hammy has that powerful dirty D should you choose to use it. My favorite thing about the Byrne was the upper octave… man is it beautiful and light. The clips may not do it justice but I really enjoyed playing the Byrne’s upper octave. It was very sweet. I wish I could combine the lower octave of the Hammy with the upper octave of the Byrne… that would be nice. THe hammy is much more responsive than the Byrne. But I found that the Byrne was smoother between the octaves, and preformed better on rocking pedals.

Anyways, before I ramble on too much I’ll say that I really like my Hammy cause it’s a beast. It’s loud, wild, fun to play and it’s challenge. It’s a super flute and I haven’t played any make better but the Byrne was a very, very nice flute. I could easily see having one to play around when I felt the need for a smoother, better mannered flute. I really like both these flutes.

Here’s some clips (so you can see how they sound the same regardless cause I’m playing them)

The reel is called the Rathcroghan and I learned it from Josie Mcdermott
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... 2JackM.mp3
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... 2JackM.mp3
for fun I recorded it with my first flute, a Dixon one “piece”
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... 2JackM.mp3

I don’t have name for this jig but I learned it from Tara Bingham (if you know the name of the tune I’d love to know)
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... 2JackM.mp3
http://www.tinwhistletunes.com/clipssni ... 2JackM.mp3

As always, comments positive and negative are welcome.

[ChrisLaughlin]

Dang dude! Nice playing!
This is absolutely spot-on playing in every respect.
Your timing is impeccable.
Your breathing is just right.
Your tone is smooth and even.
Your tuning is perfect.
The speed is great.
Dang dude! That's some nice, nice playing.

As for me... cough, cough.... leave me alone, okay... I'm in Uganda and haven't played flute for three months You'll hear me play one of these days.

Peace,
Chris

[MurphyStout]

Dang dude! Nice playing!
This is absolutely spot-on playing in every respect.

What clips where you listening to? You give me too much credit. I don't do that tune much justice... Josie McDermott does it much better. Anyways, I'm glad you're alive dude and don't worry about the flute... saving the world is much more important

[Tom O'Farrell]

With Josie McDermott playing "much better" (to quote you) what is it about his playing that makes you say this. Which of course may bring us back to the previous thread you started about the Tradition, which I call the "feel".
Your playing is, I think, good enough for the girls I go out with.

[ChrisLaughlin]

LOL - the only thing I would suggest for possible improvement, though it is more of a stylistic choice, is to blow the flute a little harder and really test it to it's breaking point. Maybe you are doing so and my crummy speakers are just making it hard to hear. To my ear it sounds like you are giving it plenty of air and getting a great tone, but pushing it a little further would give it all the more power and oomph. That said, many players don't see the point of playing "on the breaking point", don't try to do so and sound darn good.
I'm on a bit of the opposite side of the coin as you, I think, in that I blow hella hard, get massive volume and push the flute to it's breaking point almost all the time - however, I lack the control, agility, focus, precision and subtlety you have. I think your approach is much more conducive to becoming a great player. You have concentrated on the fundamentals of control, rhythm and tone first, and now you can easily add the volume/edge just by blowing a little harder and adjusting your embouchure slightly. Overall, I think you're in a much better position than I am. In the end though, the whole tone, volume, blowing question is really one of personal preference, aesthetic and style, to which there are only personal answers.

Best,
Chris

[andrewK]

True Pratten style ?
I don't think there were any Prattens looked like that !

[peeplj]

Nice nice playing on both flutes.

I enjoyed hearing the comparison--there is a difference, more than just volume, between the two. My ears like the Hamilton! Although the Byrne sounds lovely as well, it just doesn't quite have the presence that the Hamilton does.

But I may possibly be biased towards the Hamilton sound.

Nice comparison and wonderful playing!

Please post more!!!

--James

[talasiga]

The REEL:-

Hamilton Flute: I found the playing a little mechanical and rote. You had good command of the notes but I was not moved by this.

Byrne Flute: This was quite haunting. There is raspiness here that is sweet and hearthlike. I think this flute brought out the best in your playing.

The JIG:-

Hamilton Flute: You played this very well. Not mechanical this time.

Byrne Flute: You didn't play as well on this piece as you did the other. There is a breathing problem. You may be breathing too much - holding too much air. Probably because you're used to the Hammy which requires more air. Excess holding of air can be restrictive. Despite this, once again I was struck by the smoky hearth evoked by your playing on this flute. It has that "old fashioned" sound and speaks of ancient love retold to young hearts.

OVERALL, I feel that if you persisted with the Byrne it would realise the best in you. You also seem to be able to modulate it better.

Thank you for this opportunity to comment. Topics like this are golden.

[NicoMoreno]

Hey Jack,

I think that the second one sounds like The Rambling Pitchfork.

(Ok, only the first part. The second part sounds similar but substantially different.)

[jim stone]

Thanks for the comparisions, and
for the recordings, which I really
enjoyed.

[AaronMalcomb]

I heard Jack's clips the other night while chatting so Jack already knows my comments.

On my headphones I noticed more similarities between Jack's tone on the flutes than I heard differences between the flutes. The only major differences I heard (other than the F# difference) was that the Hamilton sounded more open-ended, like its limits hadn't been reached. The Byrne sounds like its limits are being caressed.

When listening to peers the goal is not to learn from them but just to hear what they have learned. So in listening to Jack, listen to how much he's learned about tone, rhythm and phrasing. Not perfect, but very steady and with the right amount of *unnh* to sound traditional. These are foundations of playing. Jack is the apt pupil of getting that down before adding speed and technicality. That is one of the great things about learning tunes off of players like Josie. The foundation is much clearer than the Molloy/Crawford/McGoldrick types where the foundation is more elusive.

Cheers,
Aaron

[jim stone]

OK, what's 'unnh'?
I suppose that this is an ineffable
property, sounds like it, but,
well, might you say something
more?

[Cayden]

(if you know the name of the tune I’d love to know)

It's a close variant of the Goat in the green or the Hole in the Hedge

There's a variant in The Trip t oSLigo called Old Apples in Winter (p 83)

[NicoMoreno]

Thanks Peter... It was starting to bug me.

I think deep down, I really knew it wasn't rambling pitchfork at all...

[MurphyStout]

With Josie McDermott playing "much better" (to quote you) what is it about his playing that makes you say this. Which of course may bring us back to the previous thread you started about the Tradition, which I call the "feel".
Your playing is, I think, good enough for the girls I go out with.

Hmmm, Josie is better than me for countless reasons. One of the bigger reasons is that he has control over the music that I don't have yet. Plus he doesn't have all of my bad habits.

Have a listen to him yourself and then tell me what you think.
http://www.lafferty.ca/music/irish/flut ... s/jmc2.mp3

As to what your last sentence means... I'm at a loss to whether it's a complement or a criticism.. either is good.