Rescuing The Bible From Fundamentalism, by John Shelby Spong

[jsluder]

I'd start with Noss. His book, Man's Religions (6th edition, revised 1980), is a good starting point with no bias that I could detect. There are perhaps hundreds of qualified scholars/writers/historians contributing to his book from various angles of Judism and Christianity, and the scriptural historical background.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Jennie]

I would hope you don't get called names for asking questions. Questions are good. It's the answers that can be bothersome.

Whenever there's an animated discussion about religion, this important point returns. My education, experience and intellect are not great enough to wrap around many topics, let alone God. But they are good tools to begin with. And I'm sure God isn't afraid of the questions.

Seems like a lot of people are, though. And those who discourage questioning, in the Christian religion at least, are often fundamentalists. For me, the freedom to ask, and then to seek answers, has brought me to a deeper level of faith. So I say keep asking. Just don't stop at any answer that doesn't invite more questions.

Jennie

[emmline]

The Spong book I've read (in addition to his columns,) is Why Christianity must Change or Die.
I also, tend to agree with his points.
Another theologian, with a similar pov, who manages to convey it with less stridency, is Marcus Borg. I recommend anything by him.
I'm presently reading "The Five Gospels," which is a new translation, with commentary, by the Jesus seminar (heretics all :roll: )

The point, with Borgian, Spongian, Jesus Seminar, etc theology is to get to the essence of the teachings of Jesus, the historic figure, without the clutter of 2 thousand years of Church dogma. If distilling Jesus' message from all that extra stuff is tantamount to branching off into a different religion, then so be it.

[jsluder]

The point, with Borgian, Spongian, Jesus Seminar, etc theology is to get to the essence of the teachings of Jesus, the historic figure, without the clutter of 2 thousand years of Church dogma. If distilling Jesus' message from all that extra stuff is tantamount to branching off into a different religion, then so be it.

Amen!

[Jack]

I would hope you don't get called names for asking questions. Questions are good. It's the answers that can be bothersome.

Whenever there's an animated discussion about religion, this important point returns. My education, experience and intellect are not great enough to wrap around many topics, let alone God. But they are good tools to begin with. And I'm sure God isn't afraid of the questions.

Seems like a lot of people are, though. And those who discourage questioning, in the Christian religion at least, are often fundamentalists. For me, the freedom to ask, and then to seek answers, has brought me to a deeper level of faith. So I say keep asking. Just don't stop at any answer that doesn't invite more questions.

Jennie

Sadly, I agree with you. My class is basically 29 Southern Baptists (mabey a couple Methodists in the bunch-mabey-), the Pentecostal professor, and me. A lot of the people think I am odd (at best) for never bringing a King James Version. To them, it is the absolute infallable WORD OF GOD. Every point they argue, and every stance they take, is always based on a few words from it, and that makes me sad because it really makes it seem like they have little...depth...or room to really discuss and think about God in terms other than that book. At times, I actually think they don't worship Jesus, but the Bible. I feel that way about a lot of more fundamentalist people.

[Jennie]

Yes. Room to discuss. Beyond the kind of bumpersticker sentiments ("God said it. I believe it. That settles it.") that are swallowed and then regurgitated so readily.

The Fundamentalist side is so decided on everything that there is no room for discussion. Things are either black or white, right or wrong. And all my perceptions of shades of gray are dismissed or feared.

So I'm knitting a pair of gray striped socks, with a purple stripe in the middle, for my black-and-white Fundamentalist father. Maybe he'll start seeing in color?... but I don't have my hopes up.

Go Spong. And all those who question his questions, or his answers.
Jennie

[Lorenzo]

I'd start with Noss. His book, Man's Religions (6th edition, revised 1980), is a good starting point with no bias that I could detect. There are perhaps hundreds of qualified scholars/writers/historians contributing to his book from various angles of Judism and Christianity, and the scriptural historical background.

Thanks for the suggestion!

There's a ninth edition out that I haven't read yet, but in scanning the reviews, it looks promising and even better than the earlier edition. The Ninth Edition added new case studies from the New World: the Maya and the Cherokee, and further expanded materials dealing with women in world religions.

A History of the Worlds Religions, 9th Ed.
David S. Noss, Heidelberg College, and the late John B. Noss

Table Of Contents:

I. SOME PRIMAL AND BYGONE RELIGIONS.
1. Religion in Prehistoric and Primal Cultures.
2. Bygone Religions That Have Left Their Mark on the West.

II. THE RELIGIONS OF SOUTH ASIA.
3. Early Hinduism: The Passage from Ritual Sacrifice to Mystical Union.
4. Later Hinduism: Religion as the Determinant of Social Behavior.
5. Jainism: A Study in Asceticism.
6. Buddhism in Its First Phase: Moderation in World Renunciation.
7. The Religious Development of Buddhism: Diversity in Paths to Nirvana.
8. Sikhism: A Study in Syncretism.

III. THE RELIGIONS OF EAST ASIA.
9. Native Chinese Religion and Daoism.
10. Confucius and Confucianism: A Study in Optimistic Humanism.
11. Shinto: The Native Contribution to Japanese Religion.

IV. THE RELIGIONS OF THE MIDDLE EAST.
12. Zoroastrianism: A Religion Based on Ethical Dualism.
13. Judaism in Its Early Phases: From Hebrew Origins to the Exile.
14. The Religious Development of Judaism.
15. Christianity in Its Opening Phase: The Words and Work of Jesus in Apostolic Perspective.
16. The Religious Development of Christianity.
17. Islam: The Religion of Submission to God: Beginnings.
18. The ShTah Alternative and Regional Developments.

[Jack]

I'd start with Noss. His book, Man's Religions (6th edition, revised 1980), is a good starting point with no bias that I could detect. There are perhaps hundreds of qualified scholars/writers/historians contributing to his book from various angles of Judism and Christianity, and the scriptural historical background.

Thanks for the suggestion!

There's a ninth edition out that I haven't read yet, but in scanning the reviews, it looks promising and even better than the earlier edition. The Ninth Edition added new case studies from the New World: the Maya and the Cherokee, and further expanded materials dealing with women in world religions.

A History of the Worlds Religions, 9th Ed.
David S. Noss, Heidelberg College, and the late John B. Noss

Table Of Contents:

I. SOME PRIMAL AND BYGONE RELIGIONS.
1. Religion in Prehistoric and Primal Cultures.
2. Bygone Religions That Have Left Their Mark on the West.

II. THE RELIGIONS OF SOUTH ASIA.
3. Early Hinduism: The Passage from Ritual Sacrifice to Mystical Union.
4. Later Hinduism: Religion as the Determinant of Social Behavior.
5. Jainism: A Study in Asceticism.
6. Buddhism in Its First Phase: Moderation in World Renunciation.
7. The Religious Development of Buddhism: Diversity in Paths to Nirvana.
8. Sikhism: A Study in Syncretism.

III. THE RELIGIONS OF EAST ASIA.
9. Native Chinese Religion and Daoism.
10. Confucius and Confucianism: A Study in Optimistic Humanism.
11. Shinto: The Native Contribution to Japanese Religion.

IV. THE RELIGIONS OF THE MIDDLE EAST.
12. Zoroastrianism: A Religion Based on Ethical Dualism.
13. Judaism in Its Early Phases: From Hebrew Origins to the Exile.
14. The Religious Development of Judaism.
15. Christianity in Its Opening Phase: The Words and Work of Jesus in Apostolic Perspective.
16. The Religious Development of Christianity.
17. Islam: The Religion of Submission to God: Beginnings.
18. The ShTah Alternative and Regional Developments.

I want that so!

[glauber]

It just occurred to me that trying to know so many religions is like having hundreds of whistles at home. Better pick one and get good at it.

[Jack]

It just occurred to me that trying to know so many religions is like having hundreds of whistles at home. Better pick one and get good at it.

I disagree. Many (most?) of the worlds religions are related to one another, or have similar or identical origins (such as Islam, Judaism and Christianity) and that alone requires at least basic knowledge of the other faiths - things tie in in more areas than many people realize. The similarities are often much more significant than the differences.

[rh]

It just occurred to me that trying to know so many religions is like having hundreds of whistles at home. Better pick one and get good at it.

which religion correponds with the Feadóg?

[Redwolf]

I've read some of his stuff. He dismisses Christ and His atoning sacrifice. Since the belief in that sacrifice is the very heart of the Christian faith, he is basically expounding a new religion. Why doesn't he leave the Episcopol church and make his own? Wouldn't that take a load off?

Well, we keep hoping, but so far he seems determined to stick around, even though he's supposedly retired. What I can't figure out is why he's never been given the boot, or at least required to write as an individual rather than slugging all his books with "a bishop speaks out on...". The latter gives the impression that he's offering the stance of the church on these issues, which he most emphatically is not.

Redwolf

[cowtime]

I would hope you don't get called names for asking questions. Questions are good. It's the answers that can be bothersome.

Whenever there's an animated discussion about religion, this important point returns. My education, experience and intellect are not great enough to wrap around many topics, let alone God. But they are good tools to begin with. And I'm sure God isn't afraid of the questions.

Seems like a lot of people are, though. And those who discourage questioning, in the Christian religion at least, are often fundamentalists. For me, the freedom to ask, and then to seek answers, has brought me to a deeper level of faith. So I say keep asking. Just don't stop at any answer that doesn't invite more questions.

Jennie

Sadly, I agree with you. My class is basically 29 Southern Baptists (mabey a couple Methodists in the bunch-mabey-), the Pentecostal professor, and me. A lot of the people think I am odd (at best) for never bringing a King James Version. To them, it is the absolute infallable WORD OF GOD. Every point they argue, and every stance they take, is always based on a few words from it, and that makes me sad because it really makes it seem like they have little...depth...or room to really discuss and think about God in terms other than that book. At times, I actually think they don't worship Jesus, but the Bible. I feel that way about a lot of more fundamentalist people.

Exactly why I left the Baptist church for the Episcopal Church.
Tradition, Scripture AND Reason.

[Lorenzo]

I want that so!

Amazon has used copies for as little as $6. Glance

New, it runs about $81. Click here for details.

The book is loaded with historical facts behind the creation of a religion. Just to give you an idea of how thick it is--chapters 14, 15, and 16 [Judaism-Christianity] is nearly 200 pages long in the 6th edition....with small print and large pages. Many pictures of original documents also. It's a university level text book, but still very readable and enjoyable. Every chapter has a section called Suggestions for Further Reading, which includes the author, the book, where and when it was printed. Chapter 16 alone lists nearly 50 other books for further reading.

I'm sure the 9th edition [1994] includes many more of the latest books. Lots of related books have been written since the 1980, 6th edition.

[Walden]

Everybody should read it. [Rescuing The Bible From Fundamentalism, by John Shelby Spong]

Am I a Fundamentalist?

Exactly why I left the Baptist church for the Episcopal Church.
Tradition, Scripture AND Reason.

I was never a Baptist (an extraordinarily diverse group of denominations, btw), but I hold that Scripture is to be understood in the light of Faith, Tradition, and Reason.