Private Newblet, reporting for duty! (Questions)

happyturkeyman · Post by **happyturkeyman** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:53 pm

Turkeyman here, hopping over from the whistle board with a vague interest in trying flute (after all, concert flute was my first instrument).

Questions:

1) What's a good, entry-level flute that ISN'T the equivalent of mid-east cane whistles (which have horrible tuning, hit-or-miss tone, poor workmanship, etc.) The cheaper the better, as long as it's not on that level of incredibly low quality.

2) What the heck is the defference between a fife and a flute?

That's all, thank you.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:46 pm

1. In the $50 range you have Tipple's PVC flutes and some better bamboo flutes (Steve Cox et al.) In the $100 range you have the Olwell bamboo and the Hamilton practice flute. At $250 you have Casey Burns' wooden folk flute. In the $300-$500 range you have the Delrin flutes (Seery, M&E and Ward). Also in that range are some wooden flutes (Burns, Sweetheart). All of these have good intonation.

2. Pitch and blowing. Fifes are higher pitched (Bb is popular) and are blown starting at the second octave.

Being close to Portland I think you should be able to find an instructor or other flute player at the least.

Cheers,
Aaron

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:20 pm

The options posted by Aaron are probably some of the best out there. I think you need to consider how much you're willing to spend. The more you do spend the more you get (obviously). I think all these options are good bangs for the buck. I've heard great stuff about the Tipple flutes, they are probably incredible for a piece of PVC plumbing pipe, I recon they are really playable, with a nice sound and good intonation. Bamboo flutes are similar, exept they're made of bamboo in stead of PVC, still just a very simple stick with holes drilled in them. Olwell bamboos are similar, exept made by one of the most respected makers these days, lots of people will tell you good stuff about them. Hamilton practice flute are good, I have one at home (on loan, just to try it out), I was surprised by the ease of playing it, and it has a good sound for being an aluminium rod with a small plastic, imoveable headpiece. Above that range you'll get a simple wood flute, like the CB folk flute Aaron mentioned, probably a great flute, lots of people seem to love it, and it's more than just a stick with holes in it. The delrin flutes are basically fully feathured Irish flutes with a design similar to that of top notch flutes. They are made from plastic like materials and though it's argued that the workmanship is not really the highest standard I think they're really good enough for pretty much anyone here. I know I love mine, and lots of people will tell you that they hold their own agains real top notch instruments.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:55 am

happyturkeyman wrote:.....
2) What the heck is the defference between a fife and a flute?

That's all, thank you.

In my reckoning, anything higher pitched than a G flute (ie the G above the standard D flute) is a fife up to the high C.

From high C upwards, these are very little and hence, piccolo.

G, itself is border cafe.

Everything below G is a flute.

fyffer · Post by **fyffer** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:37 am

To clarify (I think) -- the difference between a fife and a flute is the same as the difference between a valencia and an orange.

A flute is a hollow stick, plugged at one end, and with a bunch of holes drilled in it.
A fife is a *type* of flute, generally pitched in high Bb.
A piccolo is a *type* of flute, generally keyed, and pitched in high C.

It's really no more complicated than that.

BillG · Post by **BillG** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:42 am

In my reckoning, anything higher pitched than a G flute (ie the G above the standard D flute) is a fife up to the high C.

From high C upwards, these are very little and hence, piccolo.

In addition, the average fife is about 16 to 17 inches long, C at about 16 and Bb at about 17. The fingering is the same as on the wooden flute but, as mentioned, play begins in the second octave and continues to the third. Third can be hard to obtain until you've developed a relatively tight and directed embouchure.

Wooden flutes, on the other hand, average 26 inches long for a D and, give or take a few, for other keys. The embouchure for the flute is less restrictive than for the fife BUT that doesn't mean "easier".

Enjoy.

BillG

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:40 pm

fyffer wrote:To clarify (I think) -- the difference between a fife and a flute is the same as the difference between a valencia and an orange.

A flute is a hollow stick, plugged at one end, and with a bunch of holes drilled in it.
A fife is a *type* of flute, generally pitched in high Bb.
A piccolo is a *type* of flute, generally keyed, and pitched in high C.

It's really no more complicated than that.

Exactly.

I would highly suggest the Tipple as it is cheap and a great Flute and it seems you just want to get your feet wet and the Tipple is one of the best cheap Flutes around. I read on the HMT site yesterday that Patrick Olewell has stopped taking new orders for the Bamboo Flutes as the waiting list has grown too long. I own a Tipple and it is a great FluteI highly reccomend it.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:36 pm

Aren't there high Bb instruments that are called Flutes and not Fifes as well? I seem to remeber some discussions about this months ago. There were some other things that characterized the fife other than it being in high Bb.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:58 pm

The style of music played on it, like the difference between a Fiddle and a Violin. The style like tounging a high Bb Flute would not be tounged like playing Flute but a Fife woulde be. A Fife would be playing Fife tunes and a Flute would most likely be playing tradtional music. A Flute would use the two lower octaves and a Fife would not use the lowest octave much and would use the highest octave. As a Fluter not a Fifer I own a Fife but play it as a Flute. Any instrument in high A through C is classified as a Fife but not nesaccarily played as one.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:47 pm

Henke wrote:Aren't there high Bb instruments that are called Flutes and not Fifes as well? .......

fyffer has already answered this nicely.
A fife is still a flute.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:48 pm

Unseen122 wrote:I read on the HMT site yesterday that Patrick Olewell has stopped taking new orders for the Bamboo Flutes as the waiting list has grown too long.

Mr. Olwell has been taking winters off from bamboo in order to concentrate on his wait list for wooden flutes and start taking bamboo orders middle to late Spring. Otherwise it could have been another year before Stuart received his flute... which is OK for boxwood :roll:

Cheers,
Aaron

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:11 pm

I will probably be contradicted on this but this is the way this debate goes because historically the words flute and fife have been used differently by different groups.

In England they played the “band flute” that was in the Bb pitch like the American fife. However the Band flute was typically a two piece instrument that had a conical bore, where the fife was a one piece instrument with a cylindrical bore.

My instructor never played the fife but I chose him because he played a baroque piccolo and flute. He has what he calls a renaissance flute that is in the key of A (one flat under my fife’s Bb) It is definitely not the same build as my fife. I guess even back in the renaissance finger holes were undercut to bring the octaves into tune with each other (He even mentioned that some makers scraped out the bore so that it was not always cylindrical). I do not believe that this was common for the fife.

It seems that fife is used to describe an instrument within a certain time period in much the same way people use Baroque, Renaissance, and Bonham to describe what kind of flute.

To confuse matters some people have modernized the fife in order to bring the tuning up to today’s standards (Much like having a Baroque piccolo with modern pitch). To do this, the makers have had to either use the Boehm taper or the conical body.

The key of the fife has been D, C and Bb. Of the fifes that I have seen none had keys (unlike Baroque and Irish instruments). The fife was played up into the third octave for signaling day to day activities, but officers often had the fife players play music for entertainment, and I think that it would have been played in it’s lower range on such occasions.

I think that the real question of the submitter is whether this would be a suitable starter instrument. In this case I do not think so, with some exceptions. For the most part fifes would not play the right key (and probably not sound in tune) for the majority of music that you have already learned on the whistle. You could always transpose the key of D to Bb but then you would not be able to play with others at a session. I do not know of any fifes less expensive than the tipple flute that are in the key of D, however Sweet makes a two piece fife “Professional Model Folk Fife” that has received good reviews and is designed to play in tune and is not as expensive as other piccolo's. Hamilton and Healy also make high D instraments and Bb fifes, but these would be more expensive than you seem to be looking for.

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dcmhtml/fife.html

Just my thoughts.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:25 pm

Thanks I.D.10-t. That was the kind of description I was looking for.

happyturkeyman · Post by **happyturkeyman** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:58 pm

I was just curious on the fife thing, but wow, I'm not really interested anymore after reading all that. I'll just call flutes, whistles, fifes, and piccolos "blow music noise sticks."

Looks like I'm going to go with Mr. Tipple. Hot dog, that's some good looking PVC, too!

Thank you all for the input - now I can't wait til my birthday! Oh, gee, I better get started dropping hints! *cough*blowmusicnoisestick*cough*

Doug_Tipple · Post by **Doug_Tipple** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:49 pm

Interesting thread about flutes and fifes. I have been trying to make a Bb PVC military fife that would be accurate in the third octave. So far, I have not been as successful as I would like, mainly because I have to live with off-the-shelf PVC pipe, which is available in limited bore diameters.

I am in the process of developing several small tunable flutes/fifes in C, Bb, and G (not really a fife, I guess). Of course, I would like a high D flute/fife/piccolo, but my pipe bore is just a little too large to make a great high D flute throughout two octaves. I really like these small flutes. They are very fast, and they take less air to blow than the larger D flutes. They do require a more developed embouchure to successfully blow the second octave, however.