Question on pitch notation for high D whistle

[norseman]

Either I'm confused or Grey Larsen is wrong in "The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle". (these aren't mutually exclusive )

Grey says that most whistles (meaning the high D whistle) sound one octave higher than written, and that the simple system D flute sounds at the written pitch. This seems backwards to me. When I play the low D on my D flute (all holes covered), I get the same pitch as the open D string on my guitar. I believe that the guitar sounds one octave lower than written, and the notes on the flute are the same as on a guitar, so it seems to me that the high D whistle plays the notes as written.

Can someone please set this straight?

[colomon]

I don't know what the story with guitars is, buy Grey is definitely right about flutes and whistles. Just sat down at the piano with a whistle to double-check...

[Unseen122]

Really I thought it was the other way around also.

[norseman]

OK, I think I've un-confused myself. Grey is correct - the high D whistle does indeed sound an octave higher than written for the same note played on a piano. The D flute plays an octave lower, so it's as written when compared to a piano.

Two things contributed to my confusion:
- 1) I had my music software setup for D whistle, so the notation reflected what was appropriate for the whistle.
- 2) I forgot that music written for guitar does indeed sound an octave lower than the same note played on piano, but this is done so all the guitar notes can be put into a single treble clef. If it was the same as piano, it would have to be written using the base clef as well.

[Byll]

I understand the high d whistle sounds one octave higher than written.
I understand the low d whistle sounds where written.

As one plays different whistles in between these two extremes, at which whistle key does one shift between the two methodologies concerning where the music is WRITTEN vis-a-vis where the music SOUNDS?

This is of more than academic interest to me. I am training a student to play the whistle part in the Broadway show, 'A SECRET GARDEN.' This problem has shown up more than once in the music...

Be well.
Byll

[Bloomfield]

I understand the high d whistle sounds one octave higher than written.
I understand the low d whistle sounds where written.

As one plays different whistles in between these two extremes, at which whistle key does one shift between the two methodologies concerning where the music is WRITTEN vis-a-vis where the music SOUNDS?

I don't think it matters, since low and hi Ds are written the same. Both are c-instruments (non-transposing). I would expect all other whistles to transpose, so that they stuff written in d-major sounds the main key of the whistle. The result would be that each whistle between hi D and low D sound less than an octave above the what is written.

A low g-whistle for example would have written bell note of D, sounding G (a fourth above the written note) and so forth.

[Wombat]

Conventions like writing high whistle notation an octave lower than it sounds are simply ways of making the written stave more useful. What use is the stave as a point of reference when most notes are way off the top?

Musical notation is meant to be helpful and not to be a barrier to playing fluently. It has nothing to do with stiffness and rigidity; it's just a useful device for helping people learn music.

[Byll]

Ah yes, gentlemen: I agree with and understand what you are saying. It would amuse you both to see the 'professional' Broadway score, concerning their demand for '8va alta', and the like...and then see the whistles they suggest to do the job...

Oh well...ever onward.
Cheers.
Byll