"Arranging" Irish Tunes?

[Danner]

In Celtic Band we have 4 harps (including the director), 6 fiddles, a banjo, a bodhran, possibly a mandolin, and me (whistles & flute). I was wondering if anybody has any tips for arranging session tunes and airs. (Arranging isn't quite the right word, but I can't think of anything better. I mean staggering entrances, harps doing chords as opposed to melody, cool transistions between tunes in a set, etc.) General info is fine; it doesn't really matter for a specific tune. We're just kinda out of new ideas for how to make the music more interesting.

[Cathy Wilde]

Wow, and I ever dared whine about feeling drowned out! Brave soul, you are.

Anyway, one of the things we have some success with is letting different instruments or combinations of instruments take turns with the melody; also with starting a tune out "thin" (just a few instruments -- or even a solo -- and then adding instruments as "building" the tune seems to demand). Key changes in sets are good; major to minor or relative minor and back again (and for those more sophisticated modal players ... going from __gians into __ians, etc.) Also, don't forget key changes within a tune. For example, moving the key from G to A after a couple of rounds of The Foxhunters Reel is a popular party trick that survives because it's such a blast; we've had similar success going from F to G in The Moving Cloud.

Switching from hornpipes to reels is fun as far as transitions; reels to jigs or vice versa are fabulous if you've got a good rhythm person who can keep everyone hanging together.

I would suggest listening to some of the good ceili bands out there like Barefield, etc. On the other side, I think the band Dervish does a brilliant job changing textures and colors and weights of tunes to build momentum thruout a set; it might be worth a listen to them.

Of course, you should be aware that you're getting this .02 from someone who has actually suggested we start a tune or two with solo bodhrahn ...

(But it works, dangit! It works!!!!!!!!!!!)

[Nanohedron]

One word: TEXTURE. Keep texture in mind. You can have instruments add on as the set progresses, or drop out to come back in later; key changes, backup and drumming style variation figure in too. If it doesn't work, you try another tack to find what does. And above all TRY ideas out: don't settle for "That probably won't work", and leave it at that. Hard evidence will tell. And there's nothing wrong with having one instrument play while the others take a break for however long it works best.

Texture keeps the wider audience interested. Those with the ear for Pure Drop are the ones who keep you honest (unless you really want to work with synthesizers, flugelhorns and angelic choirs --in that case God help you ). The band I'm in realise the use of texture but want it to be as close to and informed by the tradition as possible while appealing to the wider audence.

When we're particularly happy with something in a new arrangement, the drummer and I will look at each other and lisp, "Texture". It's sort of our in-joke.

[rh]

i might get flogged for this but you might listen to the Chieftains for ideas -- their instrumentation is similar to yours (harp, fiddles, flute, bodhran, plus of course they have pipes and vocals and have had the occasional box or whatever) and their music is quite varied in terms of arrangements.

Nano's right -- texture (or arrangers will often say "tone color") is an important thing to consider. You're pretty much the only wind instrument, so you're especially important in the mix (four harps and six fiddles can get pretty samey-sounding). Try different combinations -- harp and whistle, harp and flute, banjo and fiddle, fiddle and flute, etc. Harp plus banjo might be too plunky, but try it anyway, could be right for certain tunes.

Look for other things you all can bring to the mix -- can anybody learn a couple of tunes on harmonica, for instance? Little things like that can make all the difference in your presentation.

Unless you're playing for a pure drop audience, then just play the chunes and to hell with the begrudgers.

[Martin Milner]

Not just the Chieftains, listen to everyone!

Altan, Lunasa, Flook, The Bothy Band, Beoga, Tuatha, 422, Danu, Solas...

Your group is VERY large, most of the above bands limit themselves to 4 or 5 members.

[Danner]

Yeah, I know we're really big. This is actually a class with the local university. It's technically the Community School of the Arts Celtic Band. I don't think they can really turn anybody down unless we get so big that there aren't any classrooms we'd fit in. I try to listen to everybody I can, but some people really have almost no idea of what Irish/Celtic music is anyway. (We're a Celtic band, but we mostly play Irish stuff.) Changing keys is a problem for the harps. (They're lever harps: every time they need to change keys they have to flip a few levers.) Sometimes we will have a small group start, add a few more, and finally have the whole group play, but once we start, nobody ever drops out. I think what we really need to do is tell all but one or two fiddlers to just not play!!!!

What about having the 5 zillion fiddles play chords sometimes? That might be a fair way to make them not play quite as much. Or what about me playing the root note of the chord (adding in some ornamentation/variation stuff of course) for one reapeat of the tune or whatever? One other thing: Mostly when we play airs we end up playing at least most of it all together (sometimes we'll start out with a solo or something). How could we get them to not be quite as clunky feeling? Thanks everyone. Some of that should help a little.

[ErikT]

Sounds like what you might need is to have someone in charge.

[Danner]

Sounds like what you might need is to have someone in charge.

We do have a director, but he doesn't really want to turn anybody down, and he's kind of out of new ideas for making the tunes interesting with so many players. He's looking at this as a learning experience. I think it might sort of be a lost cause trying to do much with 6 fiddles. This is the only group Celtic(ish) music in the area, so there's a demand, especially from those who don't know squat about trad music. I think I might just quit after this semester.

[ErikT]

Oh well. Maybe several of the people would be interested in a house session?

[Cathy Wilde]

Can you do a "chair" system like in more formal bands and orchestras -- i.e., first fiddle, second fiddle, etc.? If people have to 'audition' for a chair -- i.e., no audition required to get into the band but an audition required to determine one's position within it -- maybe there'll be reasonable understanding as to who gets to play more and why. Better yet, it might give people something to aspire to. And perhaps even better, the ones who really stink might not like the pressure and ... drop out.

I know it sounds Machiavellian, but it could work. It's worked for all the bands & orchestras I've been in -- school and community.

And Lord knows it doesn't hurt for each section to have a leader, even if just in name.

[Nanohedron]

Surely the musicians themselves must have some ideas for arrangements. Why not speak up and suggest some possibilities? For instance, the fiddlers could play though a tune in rotating succession, singly or in pairs, each turn taking up a bar, for example. You'd get different flavors that way.

Just a thought.

[Martin Milner]

I forgot to mention Blazin' Fiddles - a five piece fiddle group from around Scotland.

http://www.footstompin.com/artists/blazin_fiddles

They may give some ideas for the fiddlers.

I dropped out of a band I was in (for now), not because of the proliferation of instruments (I was one of six fiddlers too, including the teacher) but because we had lost direction, in my opinion.

Fiddles can do great back up chords, drones etc. There's no need for everyone to play the tune all the time. -

[Cathy Wilde]

Amen to that, Martin! (re fiddles playing drones, chords, etc.) I personally like a change from everyone sawing away on the melody all the time.

[glauber]

i might get flogged for this but you might listen to the Chieftains for ideas

Yes, i was thinking the same thing, esp. the Celtic Harp album. Such a pity Derek Bell isn't around anymore.




You'll probably have to ditch the banjo, though! Just kidding.

Anyway, do you know what's the definition of perfect pitch? When you toss a banjo in a dumpster without hitting the sides.

[ChrisA]

Changing keys is a problem for the harps. (They're lever harps: every time they need to change keys they have to flip a few levers.)

With 4 harps, though, you could have two of them in one key and two of them in another.
Start with two harps, and when you hit the keychange, you continue with 2 harps... but not the same two.

And yes, six fiddles against six other instruments, and there's nothing to be heard but fiddles, I'm sure. It'd probably be best to have them switch off in rotation much of the time.