OT: Attention Irish Bouzouki Players

hillfolk22 · Post by **hillfolk22** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:45 am

I have in front of me the spring catalog from musicmaker's kits.

I have been drooling over this bouzouki kit for $249.95.

My father is into woodworking and also has made a few instruments from this outfit.
He has suggested if I buy the kit, he would build it.

I have a couple questions.

I need some really good bouzouki websites to check out. Rather than going on this huge websearch, I thought I would start here.

How difficult is it to play. I play guitar and I am exploring different playing styles and techniques.

Has anyone ever built their own bouzouki before from this kit? Were you pleased with it?

Any info you can give me would be deeply appreciated.

Laura

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 11:09 am

Han Speeek (Not Hans) has a good bouzouki page. There is some basic information about playing bouzouki and there are a lot of chords, which I suggest you avoid.

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.speek/bouzouki/

Anthony de Waal also has a cittern page which of interest mainly for the large number of links.

http://home.hccnet.nl/h.speek/bouzouki/

If you already play guitar, you obviously have a head start. However, there are several ways to tune a bouzouki and the tuning choice can influence the difficulty of playing. Personally, I make it easy on myself and tune to a completely open tuning ADAD. To be honest, this makes it dead easy. You do have to capo for different keys.

Zan Mcleod has a pretty good vidoe availabe from Homespun tapes. He uses the tuning GDAD.

Steve

steve · Post by **steve** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 11:13 am

The best spot is Hans' Irish Bouzouki Home Page. This site is a must for bouzoukis. The main issues you may have are 1) scale length. The kit you are looking at may have a longer scale length (length of neck) than what you are used to at guitar. A longer scale length means a longer stretch between frets.
2) Tuning is usually gdad or gdae which in either case is more like the mandolin than guitar. The nice thing about gdae tuning is that it will give you a great head start on learning violin if you choose to do that later.
Hans' wep address is http://home.hccnet.nl/h.speek/bouzouki/

Dzhokar · Post by **Dzhokar** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 11:38 am

GDAd is the most common tuning for irish bouzouki anymore, mainly because of the reach involved, but also beacause 90% of the music is played in D. I tend to favor GDAe tuning myself, but I do alot of switching between mandolin and zouki so its just easier for me to keep both instruments at the same tuning. I have heard of the bouzouki being tuned to DGBe like the 4 highest sounding strings on the guitar, but this is kind of rare.

Good luck!

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:28 pm

When choosing a tuning, consider what you want to do with the instrument. If you want to play melody there will be long stretches involved no matter what tuning you choose but having a D on the 1st course will involve longer stretches and more up-the-neck playing than having E on the first course.

For accompaniment there is a tradeoff between flexibility and what you might call "dronyness". The drone factor is one that most zoukers consider important. A flexible tuning, like standard guitar tuning or GDAE on a zouk allows more chords in more keys than a more drone based tuning such as ADAD. The drone based tuning, of course, allows more dronyness but fewer keys without a capo. Another aspect of this is the amount of movement that you can employ in a tuning. Check Alec Finn's work with De Danaan or with fiddler Frankie Gavin. His playing on a three course Greek bouzouki is always in movement, using almost all single string work. This is easier to accomplish with an open tuning. Finn uses DAD. The Zan Mcleod video that I mentioned uses this approach in the very first accompaniment example. A more chordal based approach is good too but it's a different approach. When you use two or three fingers to produce a chord, your hand is fixed there and your fingers are not free to move as they are in an open tuning. Check Mary Custy's web site at MP3 com for some playing with Eion O'Neill who uses an open tuning and a drone based accompaniment approach. Particularly the album With A Little Help from Their Friends.
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/65/mary_custy.html

Steve

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:14 pm

To SteveK:
Being that you are knowledgeable about this, do you know what tuning the Battlefield Band uses? They really use them for nearly rock-like rhythm, sort of in-place of guitars so I think its some kind of drone tuning.

I just assumed (incorrectly for yet another time) that Celtic bouzoukis used mandolin tuning gdae so that you could crossover from vln to Irish banjo to mando and so on and so on.

what I want to know also is what tuning Seamus Egan and or (?)Griffin from Clare use on Irish banjo. That is some of the coolest stuff ever, reels on those banjos....

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:37 pm

On 2002-04-16 15:14, The Weekenders wrote:
To SteveK:
Being that you are knowledgeable about this, do you know what tuning the Battlefield Band uses? They really use them for nearly rock-like rhythm, sort of in-place of guitars so I think its some kind of drone tuning.

No, I don't know. I saw them fairly recently but they didn't use the bouzouki very much.

[/quote]
I just assumed (incorrectly for yet another time) that Celtic bouzoukis used mandolin tuning gdae so that you could crossover from vln to Irish banjo to mando and so on and so on.
[/quote]

That's not necessarily an incorrect assumption. Some people do. I don't find a lot of people actually playing melody on bouzoukis though. They have kind of a long scale for that. Many melody players use 10 string citterns or octave mandolins. Both typically have have a shorter scale and are somewhat more manageable. The cittern can also give you an extra high string which allows you to avoid the problem of stretches. The stretches don't bother some people though. One of my favorite bouzouki players is Brian Taheny who lives in Toronto. He manages to get all over the thing.

[/quote]
what I want to know also is what
tuning Seamus Egan and or (?)Griffin from Clare use on Irish banjo. That is some of the coolest stuff ever, reels on those banjos....
[/quote]

I can't say for sure but most tenor banjo players use GDAE. The same pitches as an octave mandolin. I gather that there are a few who use CGDA but I don't know who they are. I think Griffin's name is Kevin.

Steve

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:46 pm

Sorry, I was failing to distinguish the bouzoukis from citterns etc. I should know, I used to sell 'em but in those days (late 70s), I don't think the terminology had settled in as it has now. When I go into Lark in the Morning now there are so many types that its confusing to me.

I can see that the shorter ones would be a little easier for melodies. BBand was using some kind a lot in "Threads" days but for rhythm, as I said earlier. When I saw them, they were using two for some songs and one almost throughout the show. They've had quite a few incarnations and personnel changes though so its not surprising to have different alignments. Thanks for info.

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:28 pm

On 2002-04-16 12:45, hillfolk22 wrote:
I have in front of me the spring catalog from musicmaker's kits.

I have been drooling over this bouzouki kit for $249.95.

My father is into woodworking and also has made a few instruments from this outfit.
He has suggested if I buy the kit, he would build it.

Laura, if you do get the kit, please let us know how it turns out. I've built a few MusicMaker kits and have loved their harps. The lap harp is just amazing -- that they can get such a big and crisp sound out of a six-pound harp is really impressive. I've always wanted a bouzouki (ever since the Monty Python cheese shop sketch, or was it the first time I saw Andy Irvine?), and $250 would be a lot easier to swallow than what they charge for a "real" one.

I haven't had great luck with kits (from a different company) for fretted instruments with necks. The necks tend to bow. A bouzouki may not be as high-strung as a mandolin, so this may be less of a problem.

Charlie

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 3:59 am

This won't be very helpful, but it might raise a smile or two:

http://home.earthlink.net/~krikey/home.html

pixyy · Post by **pixyy** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:12 am

On 2002-04-17 05:59, Martin Milner wrote:
This won't be very helpful, but it might raise a smile or two:

http://home.earthlink.net/~krikey/home.html

Had I not been sitting in the office, i would have been laughing out loud. Thanks for the link!!!

Jeroen

hillfolk22 · Post by **hillfolk22** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:25 am

Thanks to all of the replies!

For a picture... (if only I could figure out how to insert pictures here, I would!)

check out.

http://www.musikit.com

then click on bouzouki...it also has a sound file.

SteveK... Great site!
According to the kit the scale length runs from the nut to bridge is 25 1/2 inches long. I measured my martin and it is the same length!

One thing that I noticed on the website you posted was the placement of the bridge. I checked out the builder's site. The bridge was set in a slight angle and was made of bone. The picture in the catalog appears to be straight across and is made of Padauk. I would also replace the turners. It looks like they are the open ones. I prefer the closed ones. Also it is a flat spruce top. But for the price and for a beginner that's not bad. Better than $600 on up!

Charlie...

You mentioned about not having good luck with the kits you had with the necks warping. This kit supplies an inner bracing rod.

My father built me a harp, but not from this outfit. It is funny you mention that, because I was toying with the posibility of purchasing a harp kit. (until I got to the page with the bouzouki on it) The harp my dad built is not all the greatest.(it was his first crack at building instruments) It is a steel strung one and does not have the guide post as most harps have. The sound holes are on top. I have tried playing it. It will not stay in tune. I have considered chunking $$ into nylon replacement strings. Never got around to it. So it is a really nice dust collecting decoration.

He has had huge success with the hammer dulcimer kit, hognose psaltery and bow psaltery. Sells all three in the local music store.

This would be my father's first attempt of making a fretted instrument. HMmmmm

Any luthiers out there with a few tips and tricks of the trade?

I guess my biggest wish is... I wish I could find a bouzouki playing friend who is local to my area and play around with it.

BTW... Martin.... cute site

Also I have been playing around with the alternate tuning DADGAD and DADEAE on my guitar. The bouzouki tunings should be fun to play around with.

Thanks again for all of the info

Laura

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hillfolk22 on 2002-04-17 08:29 ]</font>

ScottStewart · Post by **ScottStewart** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:41 am

Laura, if you are interested in buying rather than building, there's a maker you should check out. I, too, play guitar, and mandolin, and I've been looking into getting a bouzouki. The maker is Rick Felkel of Elloree Guitars. From writing to owners of his instruments, they are all satisified owners, the instruments sound very good and are not badly priced. He has a bouzouki on ebay right now - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =858628752. From there you can get to his website. When I buy, I'll most likely get a bouzouki and a mandolin from him. Just a little more info for you.

_________________

Scott

"Studies reveal that 82% of the population will believe anything when you
use a percentage in your statement"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ScottStewart on 2002-04-17 08:42 ]</font>

LKtz · Post by **LKtz** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:15 am

I'm actually buying an Elloree mandolin from NancyF. It's not a bouzouki, but it's similar. If people are interested, I can post a review on it. This might help if people are interested in Elloree bouzouki.

Caryn

PS I have been reading zookman for about 6 months and I love it! It's my favorite comic.

ScottStewart · Post by **ScottStewart** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 9:31 am

Caryn, please do, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Elloree.