OFFICIAL POLL: SEPARATE OFF-TOPIC FORUM?

[Loren]

I'm with Missy. One thing I actually enjoy around here is the tolerance of thread drift, and I enjoy it ON MY OWN THREADS, too, mind you. It's entertaining, and one gets to see some pretty sharp wits at work. After all, one can only cover most subjects up to a point, and then free association kicks in. It's HUMAN, dammit. Rigidity and inflexibility are dire, unloved things except to the rigid and inflexible. Deep calls to deep. I think that C&F is a bit more grown-up (which includes the ability to be childlike, not childish) than that.

I seriously doubt anyone here is for Gestapo like thread policing, and I doubt many feel that's an issue, I certainly don't. No one is trying to "sanitize" the forums, just give both groups of folks (those who like to chat OT, and those who prefer more focus) to both have their cake.

For those who believe segmenting and separate OT Forums are the death of forums, I'll point you here: http://p084.ezboard.com/btheunofficialmartinguitarforum This (musical instrument related) forum is quite busy, and has continued to grow and thrive as it has become more and more segmented: A couple of years ago there were one third to one half as many forums on this board! Now, I'm not suggesting we get this crazy, but judging from this site (one of many I could put up), one more little segment isn't likely to be the beginning of the end of C&F.

Loren

[Sunnywindo]

Gosh! So much has been said... may as well add my two bits to the fray.

Like others have said, I to don't feel very confident when it comes to the on topic whistle talk. I read it, and occasionally contribute, but for the most part there are those who are much more knowlegdable than me to post about it. Whistles are fun, I enjoy playing them, but it's more of a hobby right now than a passion... playing a lot more church hymns or things I already know rather than learning new Irish tunes. I don't have the means or time right now to really delve into it... but hope to eventually when the kids get a little older.

But there is such a wonderful group of people here, I want to participate somehow. Thus OT posts are appealing to me. I don't have the luxury of a lot of face to face friends/aquiantences to talk all sorts of "OT" stuff over with. Right now, due to reasons and circumstances I won't delve into here, there are weeks where I wind up not having really conversed with anyone except my kids and my husband. So yes, I do get carried away with the OT banter here oft times.

At the same time, I am sympathetic to those who really don't want to have to work around the OT threads to get to whistle posts. Really, there has to be something that happens. No matter what we do, there will be those who may leave... either due to too many OT posts to dig past, or too many forums to check. There doesn't seem to be a complete win win situation. But I'm leaning towards another forum, leaving one for whistles and one for OT jabber.

In reality, this board exists due to the graciousness of our hosts. If Dale and Rich decided they wanted no more OT, I for one would be sad but would respectfully comply. (I know they haven't suggested doing that, just saying if they were to....) If they choose to leave things as they are or if they decide to try another forum... whatever they do decide they will have my support. I for one, am just grateful to be here.

Sara

[susnfx]

(I don't know what the "jump to" function is. It may be great, but we need to offer something easy and fast that people don't have to be trained to use.)

Jerry, it's at the bottom of each page - right below the "go to page..." You can jump from that page to any of the forums without having to go back to the index page.

Susan

[norseman]

The main reason I voted for a separate list is for when I want to search for a specific topic and I don't want to see the OT stuff. But I do like to see them when I'm just browsing the The Poststructural Whistle Board.

One suggestion would be to create a special code that's put in the subject of whistle related posts. It would have to be unique so it serves the searching purpose. Also, everyone would have to know to use it. Mabe they could add a button that inserts the code. This approach would seem to satisfy the majority of both camps.

Bob

[Jack]

Jerry, I agree with nearly everything you said, but I have a question. You say it needs to be easier to navigate to other forums. I guess I've never had a problem navigating between forums. Doesn't everyone just use the "Chiff and Fipple Forums Forum Index" link at the top and bottom of the page?

Bob

Some of us have quite slow computers and find it difficult to go around to different forums, through any method.

[Loren]

I told you so (don't you hate an "I told you so?").

I think that this is a result of moving the ITM into a separate forum. What happened is that much of the meat that remains interesting when discussing whistles has moved to a different place. So once you take the meat you just have a skeleton... and with the pipes and flute forum the skeleton gets stripped even further. Since nature abhors a vacuum, you're left with - well, a full space that isn't a vacuum anymore but is full of tofu. And your left with less than a skeleton for your newsletter.

I don't think that additional forums are fruitful. I can't keep track of more than one - I can't even keep up with the flute forum. I miss seeing ITM topics on the main pages, too. I like being able to duck into a topic that sounds interesting rather than having to go hunt for it.

But that's just me,
Erik

Hmm, actually.......I'd be in favor of recombining the ITM forum with the the OT whistle forum after an OT split. I never really thought the ITM split was such a great idea anyway, while IMO, the flute forum has worked out perfectly.

What do the ITM denizens think about a recombination. Sounds sort of like something out of a comic book or horror movie - "Storm Trooper Igor, throw the switch on the C&F ITM Recombination Helical Quantum Dark Matter Device!!!

Loren

[Loren]

I think that by my "Joined:" date you can see that I'm more than interested. I'm interested in the way that this community functions, and for me, it does not function as well in compartments.

What are you talking about Erik? You're all the way up in Alaska, you might as well be on the fifth moon of Proteus :roll: And might I point out that you've been mostly away from these forums for the better part of the last year, during which time we revoked your right to vote

Loren

[Loren]

I was thinking last night that having a "socialization" board (or "pub," or whatever you choose to call it) might have the advantage of bringing in people who normally post only on, say, the flute or pipes forums...people who might not normally come to this board because they think of it as "the whistle board." I don't know how many people there are who post only on the specialty boards, but I do know that on the few occasions when I visit those other boards, I see unfamiliar names. Might be a way of fostering relations among a more diverse population.

Redwolf

Good point.

[Denny]

Regarding the navigation ...

(I don't know what the "jump to" function is. It may be great, but we need to offer something easy and fast that people don't have to be trained to use.)

Best wishes,
Jerry

Jerry, the "Jump to:" feature is a drop down list of the forums at the bottom right of the page. I never noticed it until Tom pointed it out.

Bob

Yeah! Thank's Tom...

[Brian Lee]

There's a chat room already set up. Been there for years. Use that for general discussion.

I'm with Loren in that the WHISTLE board should be more or less centered around the discussion of WHISTLES. If you want to chat about the other sundry things in life, there are plenty of chat rooms, political discussion boards, religious forums, vegan and cannibalistic sanctuaries, underwater basket weaving tutorials, and how to home breed gorilla clinics etc. etc. etc to visit all over the web.

When I first began to visit C&F quite a few years back now, it was much more focused, and while there was penty of sway around topics, and even the pleasant tangent from time to time, it was nothing like the board appears today. Just not quite sure what purpouse it serves. Personal email or messenger services seem the best avenues for much of the topics posted here now.

I've found I rarely post to the whistle board anymore and have several times almost given up on the uilleann pipe board. But things are better there certainly than here. Amazingly, there are plenty of things to talk about relating to the discussion of the little six holed fipple instrument. Interesting that this topic has come up. If this is evolution, what is it evolving into I wonder...

[Teri-K]

I told you so (don't you hate an "I told you so?").

I think that this is a result of moving the ITM into a separate forum. What happened is that much of the meat that remains interesting when discussing whistles has moved to a different place. So once you take the meat you just have a skeleton... and with the pipes and flute forum the skeleton gets stripped even further. Since nature abhors a vacuum, you're left with - well, a full space that isn't a vacuum anymore but is full of tofu. And your left with less than a skeleton for your newsletter.

I don't think that additional forums are fruitful. I can't keep track of more than one - I can't even keep up with the flute forum. I miss seeing ITM topics on the main pages, too. I like being able to duck into a topic that sounds interesting rather than having to go hunt for it.

But that's just me,
Erik

Hmm, actually.......I'd be in favor of recombining the ITM forum with the the OT whistle forum after an OT split. I never really thought the ITM split was such a great idea anyway, while IMO, the flute forum has worked out perfectly.

What do the ITM denizens think about a recombination. Sounds sort of like something out of a comic book or horror movie - "Storm Trooper Igor, throw the switch on the C&F ITM Recombination Helical Quantum Dark Matter Device!!!


Loren

I grabbed both quotes because my response covers each, I hope.

The ITM form was created because you did have to hunt for the subject matter on the main page, Eric. It has been an age-old problem - non-OT threads scroll into oblivion too quickly. This suggestion comes up once every 6 months, or so. And, as Loren noticed, the OT rate is getting consistently higher as time passes.

Loren, you're a flute player, so it stands to reason that you are pleased with and visit the flute forum. Pipers would mostly likely say the same of their forum. Because my interests are ITM, and an instrument other than whistle, I feel that forum has been a success. There are viturally no OT posts and people are free to discuss the tradition at a nice, leisurely pace. Bottom line, I think that's what is important - people can discuss a subject void of white noise (just a phrase - settle down) and feel comfortable. Obviously, I feel a recombination of ITM and OT would be a disaster - defeats the original purpose. I don't know that it would be constructive to the community for any forum to be eliminated or completely changed. The Clips forum has very, very little traffic, but I wouldn't like to see it discontinued. Four thousand people have varied interests, to be sure.

My take on this discussion is OT is a problem, right? Then I'd say the solution is to put OT in it's own place. Whether to create a whistle forum, or create an OT forum, may be the secondary issue. The first is whether the separation needs to happen.

[Jack]

Perhaps Dale could or should let it be known that there are to be no more than X number of off topic posts from a member per a certain amount of time (one per week or whatever...).

All of us don't post OT posts, so it wouldn't actually be as many posts as it seems...

[ErikT]

The ITM form was created because you did have to hunt for the subject matter on the main page, Eric. It has been an age-old problem - non-OT threads scroll into oblivion too quickly. This suggestion comes up once every 6 months, or so. And, as Loren noticed, the OT rate is getting consistently higher as time passes.

Hi Teri,

I agree and know why it happened, but I wasn't happy with it then, and I still don't like it now. I much preferred ITM talk occurring as part of the normal discussions on the whistle board.

But you know, over the course of this discussion I really have come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter. I'll be happy to participate and enjoy this forum in nearly any form that it takes.

Erik

p.s. Loren, man - that hurts. It's only been like 8 months and even then I'd stop back in every couple of months. Still, it shows me that you missed me, you big softy

[rh]

Hmm, actually.......I'd be in favor of recombining the ITM forum with the the OT whistle forum after an OT split. I never really thought the ITM split was such a great idea anyway, while IMO, the flute forum has worked out perfectly.

What do the ITM denizens think about a recombination.

personally, i would not like to see this happen. on the ITM forum we just had a long discussion on regional styles, there have been discussions on buying fiddles, Willie Clancy Week, bodhrans, harmonicas, touring schedules for various bands/players, etc, all of which have no direct connection to whistles. such topics would be buried under an onslaught of newbie posts, commercial posts, whistle sales, whistle comparisons, gripes about makers, etc etc etc...

besides which, as many here point out, whistle music doesn't necessarily mean ITM -- where would the kwela posts, "Celtic" posts, etc, go?

PLEASE keep the ITM forum as it is.

[Dale]

There's a chat room already set up. Been there for years. Use that for general discussion.

I'm with Loren in that the WHISTLE board should be more or less centered around the discussion of WHISTLES. If you want to chat about the other sundry things in life, there are plenty of chat rooms, political discussion boards, religious forums, vegan and cannibalistic sanctuaries, underwater basket weaving tutorials, and how to home breed gorilla clinics etc. etc. etc to visit all over the web..

I find something to appreciate and respect about all opinions, but there's no way I'm going to do anything to discourage OT posts to the forum in general. This is really only a discussion about whether OT posts and strictly whistle-related posts ought to be separated.

Even though the poll results are pretty clear, I with they were more lopsided. It's a tough call.