Not OT, Irish Music and political opinions.

[Walden]

But I also believe God expects us to pursue excellence in everything we do (must be the Wesleyan Holiness coming out in me), and this includes our music. If we are going to worship God through music, we should give him the best we've got. But He expects excellence in other areas, too, so we shouldn't sacrifice these areas in favor of our music, either.

Never mind, but it kind of chafes me when "Christian" music comes across as a cheap knock-off of the rest of the world's music. We need more Isle of Lights, Gladly Playes and Erik Tullbergs in the world!

... Our bars play mostly country and hard rock, not Irish.

My uncle was a honky-tonk musician from a young age, playing guitar. It always was more than he could take when someone would invariably request "When the Saints Go Marching In," which, of course, is a Holiness song that had been picked up by the jazz and country groups, and he'd grown up in a religious family. After his conversion, he became an evangelist. He had a certain uneasiness about playing his guitar in church. He would play it, but only in recent years has he really opened up and played up to his ability.

[Darwin]

All true conservatives play bluegrass.

But not necessarily the reverse.

Neo-trad is cooler than bluegrass.

I try to be polite here, but you're cruisin' for a bruisin', as my big brother used to say.

[BrassBlower]

Neo-trad is cooler than bluegrass.

I try to be polite here, but you're cruisin' for a bruisin', as my big brother used to say.

[Darwin]

Bluegrass doesn't seem to fit the various generalizations very well. It's "country", but it seems more like a combination of folk and jazz, compared to modern "big hat" C&W. Still, some of the deepest Bluegrass musicians are extremely conservative both religiously and politically--Ricky Skaggs comes to mind. On the other hand, there's me and the Dixie Chicks.

I've found that a lot of "liberal" interest in folk music was more political than musical. I blame it on Pete Seeger and the Weavers--and Sing Out! magazine. Once folk music was no longer a useful vehicle for social commentary (thanks to the Beatles), many "folks" lost interest in it. (And I never did understand how original material by James Taylor and Joanie Mitchell got to be "folk music" in the first place.)

Walden, your mention of the Lewis Family brings back great memories of Little Roy doing what I thought of as his "dying cockroach imitation". He'd run all around the stage, then suddenly fall flat on his back, with his legs waving in the air--all the while playing something startlingly good on the banjo.

This brought to mind another Bluegrass Gospel family that my Ft. Bragg buddies and I used to hang out with at Bluegrass festivals around North Carolina during the mid-70s, the Conrad Hinson Family. The teenage son, Derwin, was already a great banjo player. I decided to do a search on the Web, and came up with this: http://islandgazette.net/newspm/feature ... _0_5_0_M29

[StevieJ]

OK, so reading this thread I have learned that there are some people with conservative political opinions who love Irish music and play it very seriously. (Actually I know one such person. One.)

Next question: how many of them are any good at it?

[Caj]

Completely bogus philosophizing follows:

I figure it has something to do with the circumstances under which good music is born. I bet cultures/subcultures who endure oppression produce more and better music.

Liberals are not themselves oppressed, but they do tend to see themselves as defenders of the oppressed. They are probably moved more by music which communicates those feelings, which those of us in comfortable lives don't need to express much.

Then again, it just may be locality after all.

Caj

[izzarina]

So, I wonder if, in my bluegrass-friendly music community, I would be dismissed as a Pinko if I were to be caught bowing more than two notes in a single stroke or using the frog half of the bow? I'm probably in danger as it is just for playing the whistle!

Good grief, Brass! I never took you to be a red Pinko!

[rebl_rn]

I figure it has something to do with the circumstances under which good music is born. I bet cultures/subcultures who endure oppression produce more and better music.

Caj

You may be right. Ruby Payne (I think that's her name) has done a lot of research on poverty and the culture of poverty and she says that in the culture of poverty, storytellers and musicians are more revered with more of an emphasis on these things as opposed to the middle class and upper class. It stands to reason then the stories and music would, then, be better and more prolific in this culture.

This is off the off topic topic, but her studies of the culture of poverty are fascinating!

Beth

[BrassBlower]

OK, so reading this thread I have learned that there are some people with conservative political opinions who love Irish music and play it very seriously. (Actually I know one such person. One.)

Weekenders?

Next question: how many of them are any good at it?

Not me.

So, I wonder if, in my bluegrass-friendly music community, I would be dismissed as a Pinko if I were to be caught bowing more than two notes in a single stroke or using the frog half of the bow? I'm probably in danger as it is just for playing the whistle!

Good grief, Brass! I never took you to be a red Pinko!

Of course you're right, Izzy, but how can I be a bluegrasser when I only own two long-sleeved button-down shirts, one pair of black dress slacks, and no cufflinks?

[Wombat]

Now where on the political spectrum does our pundit locate people who like Western Swing?

Oh, I'm forgetting. They'e probably all dead. (Is that a barrier to voting?)

[rebl_rn]

Now where on the political spectrum does our pundit locate people who like Western Swing?

Oh, I'm forgetting. They'e probably all dead. (Is that a barrier to voting?)

Not in Chicago, it isn't!

[Walden]

Bluegrass doesn't seem to fit the various generalizations very well. It's "country", but it seems more like a combination of folk and jazz, compared to modern "big hat" C&W.

Western swing is another jazz form associated with country and western.

[The Weekenders]

This whole thread is trollbait and I am only entering it to say (because my name was mentioned) that I am only an intermediate whistler at best, but a solid musician at heart and from training in other styles. I try very hard to be a good whistler and have set that as my goal, eschewing other instruments like flute for Trad, as I will feel lucky to just get good at the former in this lifetime. I think I have a lot of company in this. Some of us are better than others, but I think it has more to do with musical conception, hand-eye coordination, careful listening and mimicry, and natural talent than who we voted for.

I think its a disharmonius topic and believe that it was not begun in a search for objective truth but as an oblique (if semi-friendly) putdown hatched in an admittedly Pepsi-overdosed state (ya gotta watch that caffeine). I would only say that if you are liberal enough in your thinking to embrace somebody else's cultural music to the extent that many of us do, then you ARE liberal-minded, just like Thomas Jefferson, for example, who loved many things from many countries. The seeming opposite would be somebody that only plays their own cultural music. If that extended to politics, then famous Irish-born Trad players would have politically conservative views because so many of them are ferociously protective (they want to CONSERVE) of their tradition.

Moving on and out of culture: frankly, I think musician's personalities are often a great hindrance to appreciation of their art. Better to hear them play than listen to them talk (me ESPECIALLY included). Movie stars, too.

Having seen the movies and read the Harry Potter books on a challenge from my son, I was struck at my developed notion that musicians are like the wizards in the story. Often unkempt, out of sorts and either contemptuous or just out-of-touch with the "Muggles" (read, people who don't play or grasp the refinements of musical expression), musicians are masters at untangible things to those who live in a mostly tangible state. Consequently, they don't quite fit. Small wonder that their political or cultural opinions might be similarly out of step with some kind of cultural constrict.

A great guitarist and mentor of mine, Ricardo Iznaola, emphasized repeatedly a linkage between solo performers and shamans of various cultures. There is truly unique ability, with a flash of spectacle here and there. But IF the people who attend the ceremony are taken out of their present reality, it has been a successful performance. To hear that great player talk can only be a letdown after such a performance.

I avoid stage-door johnny stuff for the same reason. Though sometimes the performers are nice etc., their greatness ain't gonna rub off on me and no, I won't be "discovered." So I generally just walk on by, to put the point on it.

[Caj]

Having seen the movies and read the Harry Potter books on a challenge from my son, I was struck at my developed notion that musicians are like the wizards in the story. Often unkempt, out of sorts and either contemptuous or just out-of-touch with the "Muggles" (read, people who don't play or grasp the refinements of musical expression), musicians are masters at untangible things to those who live in a mostly tangible state. Consequently, they don't quite fit. Small wonder that their political or cultural opinions might be similarly out of step with some kind of cultural constrict.

That's a thought-provoking idea.

Maybe you can combine this with the poverty theory: in poor or oppressed cultures, music is important. In more prosperous cultures, musicians tend to be misfits. Maybe there's some kind of connection there, like the more comfortable we are the less we really need music.

Caj

[DCrom]

Weeks, I think you've made the best post of the thread so far.

Agree with you on the stage-door Johnny thing - I can talk to (or listen to) great musicians until I'm blue in the face but when I play it's gonna be MY skills (or lack of same) you'll be hearing.

I'm far from being a great musician yet, and I may never be one. But I'm improving steadily, if slower than I'd like - and there have been a few, magical, occasions when I've played above myself, and left my audience convinced that I *am* a great musician. I keep hoping with that with time and practice those occasions will come less rarely.

I don't *think* any of this has to do with how I vote. Does have a lot to do with my tin ear and fumble fingers, though.