Loretto Reids toneful flute!

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:57 pm

A friend just gave me the Wooden Flute Obsession Vol.1, and I fell in love with Loretto Reid, track no 14, Leon's Waltz from The Golden Dawn album of hers.

What a tone, and style she has. The tune is great too. I managed to track down the only copy of her cd that I could find(it was used), quickly bought it, and now await its arrival! I hope it's in decent shape.

I would seriously like to have a wooden flute someday that sounds similar to hers; apparently made by Eugene Lambe. Does anyone know any other flutes that have a tone like hers? It seems very expressive, and I like the quality of the tone. I'd appreciate any input!

PS I just posted this on Kevin Krell's post about ideas for Vol 3, but I thought it would be better in a post of its own, that more might see it and help me find a flute with a tone like hers. Thanks!

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:24 am

I'm the last person who will discourage anybody from getting a new piece of timber. However, I think what you're hearing isn't the flute, but the player. She does a lot of subtle (and not-so-subtle) ornaments, and I think that performance is one of the finest examples of how slides and bending notes can be effective.

So are Lambe's flutes big- or small-holed?

Anyone else just love playing waltzes? This is one of my favorites, along with the Waltz of the Toys, Margaret's, The New Land, and a few that I can't recall the names of.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:19 am

Hello Chas,
I realize that a player influences the tone to a great degree, but the flute also plays an important role depending on the model it was based on, such as the characteristics of the Rudall or Pratten or other style flutes. From what I understand, in generalities, the Rudalls are more subtle, with a more expressive nature, and play at less volume than the Prattens. I imagine there are many variations also.

So, being that the Lambe is probably small holed, and that the tone I heard wasn't very honking like a Pratten would be, and seemed more focused in tone, I probably would like the Rudall based flute the most. Those who play Rudalls may be able to recognize a distinctive quality to the tone that is similar to Loretto's flute. At least, that is what I had hoped would happen.

I like the slow pieces best myself, the airs, and the waltzes always come first in my selection of music to listen to. I do apprecitate some fast tunes as well, but to me, sometimes one fast reel sounds too much like the last one! Now I'll have to go looking for your short list of waltz favorites, Chas, thanks. I did save the post about favorite slow airs so I can go back to it and find new tunes from time to time also.

Thanks for your help!

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:10 pm

Another slower tune I really enjoy
from WFO 1 is Clare's Reel, Sylvain Barou, track 9
on the second CD.

Yes, it would be nice to find out what
a good Rudall sounds like, wouldn't it,
without having to pay a good deal of
money to do so.

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:21 pm

I agree that Loretto plays a mean flute! I had the great opportunity to take lessons from her for about a year when I lived in Toronto.

She plays an Olwell, actually, not a Lambe. I think she had a Lambe YEARS ago when she first came to North America, but she's had the Olwell for years and records extensively with it. It's a blackwood model, silver slide and rings, fully-lined headjoint, with TINY holes.

I'm sure if you asked him, Pat Olwell could make you a similar one.

Stuart

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:32 pm

sturob wrote:She plays an Olwell, actually, not a Lambe. I think she had a Lambe YEARS ago when she first came to North America, but she's had the Olwell for years and records extensively with it. It's a blackwood model, silver slide and rings, fully-lined headjoint, with TINY holes.

It's interesting, one thing that I consistently notice in her playing is the slides and bending of notes (as I noted above). I thought conventional wisdom suggested that sliding and bending were easier with large-holed flutes. I find it much easier to slide with a small-holed flute, bending, well I just can't do well at all right now.

Stuart, do you (or anyone) know how much of the note-bending Ms Reid does with fingers and how much is done with embouchure?

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:35 pm

sturob wrote:I agree that Loretto plays a mean flute! I had the great opportunity to take lessons from her for about a year when I lived in Toronto.

She plays an Olwell, actually, not a Lambe. I think she had a Lambe YEARS ago when she first came to North America, but she's had the Olwell for years and records extensively with it. It's a blackwood model, silver slide and rings, fully-lined headjoint, with TINY holes.

I'm sure if you asked him, Pat Olwell could make you a similar one.

Stuart

Yes, this is a standard Olwell small holed flute,
his rudall--though it's perhaps more Olwell
than Rudall.

Bryan Byrne makes a highly respected
Rudall which has been said in this forum to be
a very Rudallesque Rudall, FWIW.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:23 pm

Well, thanks guys, that figures, she plays an Olwell. You couldn't have said something like, "she plays a small holed Casey Burns Folk Flute", now could you?

That's most likely the route that I will be taking for my first wooden flute. Ahem(cough) just because I couldn't bear to wait that long for one of Pat's! I'd be way past beginning intermediate by then!

At least I will have the hole size in the ballpark, and from what I understand, a great flute too.

Of course, I could always appeal to Santa Claus, but she would probably just laugh!

Thanks for the info!

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:27 pm

I think you'll be happy with your first flute then, judging by what other here have said. Seriously, it would have felt really wrong if you were to start out on an Olwell. And I think if ms Reid were to grab your folk flute and play a tune, you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference from the sound of her Olwell. I agree that the flute affects how you sound to some extent, but the differences are so subtle, and the people that benefits the most from playing great flutes are those that aren't that great players, like me and you, we would probably sound very different on an Olwell compaired to a Dixon. The pro player can make a chopstick sound great (I don't mean that the Dixon is a chopstick by that).

There was a soundclip before (don't know if it's still there) on Casey Burns' website of Grey Larsen playing the folk flute and one on Terry McGee's site of Grey playing the exact same tune on a Grey Larsen prefered McGee flute (which is almost as top-notch as it gets) and guess what... I could barely (if at all) tell the difference. He sounded almost exactly the same on both flutes. Go figure...

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:30 pm

jim stone wrote:Yes, this is a standard Olwell small holed flute,
his rudall--though it's perhaps more Olwell
than Rudall.

Actually, it's not: she kept making Pat make smaller holes for her. It's got TEENY TINY holes. He may have even used the Lambe as a guide, but I seem to recall asking him and it's not quite what he's making as a Rudall.

Also, to answer Chas . . . all fingers. I don't think she lip slides much at all. I've never seen her do it, and she and I have actually talked about it. She probably CAN, but I don't think she DOES all that much.

Stuart

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 7:38 pm

greenspiderweb wrote:I realize that a player influences the tone to a great degree, but the flute also plays an important role depending on the model it was based on, such as the characteristics of the Rudall or Pratten or other style flutes. From what I understand, in generalities, the Rudalls are more subtle, with a more expressive nature, and play at less volume than the Prattens. I imagine there are many variations also.

Conal Ó Gráda recorded "The Top Of Coom" on a Rudall with Fentum head. I know some Rudalls had bigger holes and bores but the bohemoth tone he gets is pure Conal as he gets the same tone on his Hamilton.

Cheers,
Aaron

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:08 pm

Yeah, actually, I have to agree with Aaron (et al.). I missed the other point of the original post in my zeal to talk about Loretto.

I think that the whole Prattens-are-thisway-Rudalls-are-thatway thing is overblown. What most of us hear isn't the Prattenness or Rudallity of a flute, but usually the player's embouchure. Take Chris Norman. VERY distinctive sound. Same with Loretto, or Molloy.

I've heard Loretto play my Olwell Pratten, which is arguably more like Molloy's Olwell Pratten, and less like her Littlehole Olwell. She sounded like herself. Not even, really, all that much louder.

I'm not exactly sure why these ideas persist of people owning "cannons" which are invariably Pratten-style, or "erudite hoity-toity" flutes that are nach Rudalls, really. Prattens are harder to fill, sure. Rudalls can be loud. Rudalls are probably ostensibly more expressive, but you can be really subtle on a Pratten-style flute.

I guess it's just a lot more complicated than we give it credit for, and people like Loretto and Grey Larsen just go to show you that this idea of small-holed-quiet-flutes isn't necessarily true. Maybe small-hole-tiny-bore, or SOMETHING, but I don't know.

Stuart

chas · Post by **chas** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:19 pm

sturob wrote:I've heard Loretto play my Olwell Pratten, which is arguably more like Molloy's Olwell Pratten, and less like her Littlehole Olwell. She sounded like herself. Not even, really, all that much louder.

I thought Matt Molloy played an Olwell Rudall. What I was told was that Molloy's flute was stolen, and he rang up Patrick, who had taken measurements of it and sent him a very faithful copy. That may not be what he's playing today, of course; this was some time back.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:05 pm

As far as I know, Molloy has been playing Prattens pretty exclusively for the last 28 years or so. He switched from Boosey Pratten to Olwell Pratten a few years ago though. It is ofcourse possible that he picked up a Rudall later but I find it kind of hard to belive.

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:27 am

Thanks guys, that's really interesting, so it seems an established player sounds like themselves on whatever flute they pick up, within reason. And beginners sound better on better flutes.

So, I think I have it figuered out now, I need an Olwell, preferrably small holed, and I need a pair or two of Loretto's lips. Anyone know where I can get the lips? Oh, yes, and the money for the Olwell?

But now, I do have a serious question, why did Loretto keep asking Pat for smaller and smaller holes?