Reedmaking! C and back D problems

pipemaniac · Post by **pipemaniac** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 6:32 am

I try to make my own reed since a month an and a half, most of the step seem to go well. the few reeds that i made are not so bad. They are most of the time in tune, but they need a litle bit to much pressure to play. My reel problems are with the C and and the back D on each reeds i made, those notes were weak or non existing....

wich step of the elaboration of the reeds affect that! do it is during the sraping??? If yes please give the more details you can!!!

kb · Post by kb » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:38 am

I am a recent graduate of that problem (I hope). Discussions on this list have pointed me in the right direction with much credit going to Alan Burton (thanks, Alan!).

Those notes tend to live in the corners of the lips with weakness and sinking occuring when the lips are too thin. Try the following:

* don't sand corners of lips too much (that helped some)
* (Here's where Alan came through...) Overall cane thicker than most recommendations, i.e. ~.050 in. as opposed to .038-.045 in.
* (Another one of Alan's...) Larger sanding block - I used 2.75" diameter.

My new problems are from the larger sanding block - this effectively decreases the volume above the staple where lower hand notes live. I have a reed right now that plays brilliantly in-tune, good tone, etc., but squeals only on a roll when patting the f-hole(?).

Hope this helps

--Karl

goldy · Post by **goldy** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:55 pm

The tips from kb are true about the corners/lips. It may also be due to over-sanding the slip, resulting in too thin edges. Various reed making guides suggest an optimum centre thickness of the slip, but the edge thickness needs to determine the centre thickness of each reed. I would recommend not letting them get thinner than 0.2mm (check with a vernier calliper).

Good luck with future reeds.

pipemaniac · Post by **pipemaniac** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:48 am

i like it when indications come with numbers!! thank you guys,

But if the edges should be 0.2 mm, the center of the slip should be what?

kb · Post by kb » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:10 am

Here's where the numbers fall off my friend... - until the reed crows well.

This is an area where 6-sigma process capability principles go by the wayside due to variation in cane properties and variability in the reed preparation process. I've never measured the lip thickness, but have had very thin and thick lips do similar things.

Until we have an engineered material and designed equipment for this task, this is the craft world we will have to live in.

--kb

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:30 pm

I don't make a whole lot of measurments once I cut the slip and tie it onto the stapel. The secret seems to be matching the cylinder diameter to the reed material. I have been using a 2.54" stone rolling pin for my Mark Hillmann chanter and a 2" one for my Nick Whitmer chanter. I think I may need a slightly smaller cylinder for the Hillmann and a slightly larger for the Whitmer.

I sand the slip until there is the just right amount of "meat" (I just eyball it 'till it "looks right" in the middle 1" area on each side, they are symetrical and have the right "bounce" to it with a twist/letgo of the slip.

I tie on the distance that I have found the good reeds end up with that I need to insert the staple (1" Hillmann, 7/8" Whitmer D Gallagher C) for the octaves being in tune when finished.

I then mark how high the wrap should be, install bridle and end up with about a 3/4" - 7/8" U scrape.

The lips end up being thicker than most I have seen in the center, but the edges in the upper 2/3 of the scrape get more and more "bark" scraped off to bring in the E's so they are more in tune (with some pressure changes) without the squeal on the octave.

Once you get the shape of the lips so that they "snap shut" all the way across evenly" and "bounce back" evenly), The crow will be around a "G" on the tuner for a D set.

Puff on the staple like you used to take a hit off a joint

and you should eventually shut the reed off as you increase the vacuum.

Repeat the process using the diaphram and see if the tone changes. They should be equivalent with no screaches or whistles heard, just the "crow" (very similar to the good working reed you are comparing it to) in the reed.

It sounds if you may need more work in the upper 2/3 of your scrape, especially around the edges if there are any octave E problems.

If I thin too far in the upper and lip area, I have found that on my Hillmann chanter, the C nat fingering will sound C sharp and I have to toss that one away.

pipemaniac · Post by **pipemaniac** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:10 am

what is bothering me is, all the reed i have made have a muted sound, very dull sound. I read somewhere that the thin edges determine that. But, damn

.. the last reed that i made can't have thiner edges, and if i believe what your saying, and that's what i'm doing , that's why i have a very weak back D. how to obtain a clear cryspy sounding reed??

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:41 pm

It may be just a case of opening up the reed lips a little bit more, instead of thinning the lips. Also, when cutting/scraping a new reed, it helps to let the reed rest a few days to a week between changes.

djm

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 3:05 pm

Yeah, they seem to "learn" to be a proper reed by the resting/playing cycle, don't they?

David Daye's "Penny-Chanter" Reeds and Common Problems and Remedies for Penny-Chanter Reeds may be of help.

I use the "grain raising" proceedure he describes and finally, I polish the inside of the slip with 1000 grit (or higher) sandpaper until it is shiny, which seems to help with the brightness of the reed.

The real secret to chanter and regulator reed making is being able to make the reed so that the reed will "snap shut" evenly all the way across the lips and "snap open" the same way on the reflected wave.

The reed should produce a square wave and the chanter "modifies" the square wave to the proper tone.