Tuning The Regs

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:02 am

Once again I see we are going to twist words and mix up meanings. My point quite simply is that everything, chanter and regs, should be tuned to sound true against the drones, plain and simple, regardless of tuners. It helps to be in tune with those around you. At no point did I say not to tune the drones as required.

As FP noted, the chanter can drift with changing temperature/humidity. Some individual chanter notes can go off from time to time. Tuning the regs to sound correct against the drones will ensure an overall good sound.

djm

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:08 am

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:46 am

AlanB, what good is it tuning the chanter to itself? As soon as you turn on the drones it would be off. Everything about the UPs is based around the drones (most bagpipes are). Most pipemakers that I know off even flatten the Cnat on the chanter just to make it sound right against the drones. Tuning the regs should be no different. If the regs are out of tune with the drones they will sound like caca. So will the chanter.

djm

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:34 am

If the Cnat isn't right against the drones, then the chanter (or chanter reed) isn't in tune with itself, or your fingering is wrong for the chanter. How would you know that? You may not, but I dare say most of us would, and w/o a tuner or drones going. The UPs are not necessarily based around the drones. UPs are not like other bagpipes. Consider the UP chanter as comparable to playing an oboe where drones are not needed. Add drones or don't add drones. Chanters often stand alone as a solo instrument and can be in as good a tune as the oboe. The regs are more like a pipe organ...add them or not.

Once you get a good chanter with a good reed, you'll tune the drones to the A or G position (lower register!!!!) on the chanter. Everyone does this except maybe for the odd eccentric who has a poor setup and doesn't know it, or doesn't know how to get it right first before tuning the drones to the chanter.

Like Alan says, "Tune your drones to your chanter, tune your regs to your chanter." Stubborn adherence to anything else smacks of bats in the belfry.

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:16 pm

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:33 pm

AlanB wrote:Thanks for quoting the only part of my post that was flawed.

I wasn't going to say anything, but it's important to know there is nothing wrong with referring to an instrument (or drones) as being at 440hz. Professionals do it all the time. It's a term that has come to mean standard pitch for the whole instrument..."that piano is about a quarter step below 440." It would be considered nutty for someone to correct a piano tuner and say, "no, not every string on the piano is about a quarter step below A49."

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:11 pm

Nothing to do with A=440Hz. Nothing wrong with tuning to A or G on the chanter. If you are playing UPs without drones or regs you are hardly playing UPs anymore, are you? (Why not try recorder? Royce can get you a good deal.

)

I still maintain my original point that after tuning the regs to the chanter, you should make sure your regs are tuned true to the drones.

djm

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:18 pm

Lorenzo wrote: Like Alan says, "Tune your drones to your chanter, tune your regs to your chanter." Stubborn adherence to anything else smacks of bats in the belfry.

Well said...Lorenzo
Alan I'm with ye 100% on this

It seems to me that there is a lot of pontificating going on frae (I suspect) bats..that would be far better employed learning the instrument rather than endlessly talking about them,and thereby shewing a woeful ignorance on the subject. :roll:
I started to dabble with the regs after about 2 years playing,Martin Nolan at the time, told me to stop ,in no uncertain terms(as is his way)and concentrate on the chanter work more.I felt hurt at the time but he was bang on.I waited another 5 years or so before experimenting with them and slowly only slowly started to introduce them into the music.
Today I will use the regs in a limited form to add expression (or if my hand slips!) When I listen to the likes of Robbie Hannan the regs are played only a lttle during a piece and catch your ear and add colour,which is what I like.
As for learning the regs after having the set only a couple of weeks I would advise against.There is plenty to learn before ye even go there.Whilst I believe the 21 years thingy is a bit daft there is certainly a lot to be said for learning to walk before ye can run....resist temptation.take the reeds out of the regs if necessary and get on with your chanter work...(that tip isnae meant just for L24B either,a little less posting and a lot more playing may actually improve the contributions to this board).

SlánGo Foill
Uilliam

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:23 pm

djm wrote:Nothing to do with A=440Hz.

Playing at today's standard pitch has everything to do with A=440hz. You might consider mentioning what you're talking about.

djm wrote:If you are playing UPs without drones or regs you are hardly playing UPs anymore, are you? (Why not try recorder? Royce can get you a good deal. )

I said, "UP chanter" w/o the drones or regs, not "UPs." Surely you realize that the UP chanter is not anything like a recorder.

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:26 pm

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:39 pm

djm wrote: I still maintain my original point that after tuning the regs to the chanter, you should make sure your regs are tuned true to the drones.

djm

this is getting absurd!
The drones are the last thing to be tuned and incidentally the easiest to do!!
DJM ye are actually doing a disservice to those daft enough to follow your advice and it is not in the least bit helpful to those struggling to learn the instrument to be told a load of crap as though it is from some sort of authority!What is your source?
Slán
Uilliam

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:17 pm

I think one of the most startling things for a learning piper, who thinks his set is all fixed up now...full of tape, putty, and rushes everywhere, fingerholes filed out, etc.,...is for someone more knowledgeable about pipes to come along and tear out all the tape, putty, rushes, etc., stick a good chanter reed in the thing, tune it up and adjust the drone reeds and listen to pipes sing. "How'd you do that?" It wouldn't do that for me. I said, it wouldn't do that for me! Let me try that. You mean this is how they're suppose to work?"

It's happend to me before. I know. I've seen it happen a lot. Don't take it for granted that your set is set up right. A reed can be in tune but a complete throwaway. And on the other hand, you might want to throw it away, but fact is...it's perfectly okay.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:44 pm

AlanB wrote:A is all you need from a tuner to tune your chanter, then you put it away and tune by ear . If your A is out of tune, sort it out. There is no real excuse for a chanter that is out of tune, plenty of reasons, but never excuses.

Uh, I was under the impression that you tune an instrument to the center of an instrument's range and the UP plays from D to d', so back D is the center of the range.

If you tune the A of the chanter to 440 hz, your Ds will be slightly flat (hey, I might just be in tune with the concertina then), around 2 cents, enough to bother some musicians, others say "close enough for Celtic music"

The main point is I can tune to the band with my method faster than the band can tune to me (6-8 knobs to twist and it takes them forever) and I have to think up jokes and remember if I have used it on that audience.

You tune your way, I'll tune my way and wait for you until you are finished when we get to play together. If I manage to break or kill the reed, I will use my backup reed (I think I have a real good one on the way for my Hillmann chanter).

Hint: never tune while sitting under a rotatating ceiling fan as it gives a "leslie effect" and you will spend 15 minutes wondering why your drones sound so funny and won't tune....

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:05 pm

Lorenzo, I have no putty or rushes in my chanter, not even in the bell. From time to time my A goes a bit sharp when the weather dries up. Then I put a bit of tape over the top of the A tone hole (whew, that was close!).

Uilliam, making sure the regs are tuned with the drones comes from my teacher, Debbie Quigley, and she's right, it works. I don't claim to be an authority on anything, unlike you, who put down anything you don't have or anything you don't do, as if you were the only yardstick the rest of us should measure ourselves by. Sorry, I don't buy it.

djm