which are the loudest flutes?

[eilam]

obviously it's the player, because with out the player the flute is silent, but ask any player and they have one flute that is louder then the rest of them.
I really hate reducing a flute to: is it loud or not, but I also never play in situations where I can't hear my self

[gentlemanpiper]

are louder flutes harder to play in terms of say needing a tighter embouchure or requiring more air?
how do martin doyle's flutes measure up in terms of volume?

[Father Emmet]

I've had a Hamilton keyless for a few weeks now, and am still adjusting my emboucher to it, as it is a lot different than the Burns folk flute I've been playing for the last ten months (my first flute). Anyway, I picked up the Burns after not playing it for two weeks, and WOW! It's LOUD! The stronger emboucher the Hamilton is forcing me to develop makes a big difference in the Burns. The sound now reverberates back from corners in the room, and glasses in the cupboard rattle. So it wasn't the flute that was quiet, but me. I guess a good player (which I am not) can make any flute as loud (or quiet) as he/she wants it to be.

[Blayne Chastain]

My J. Gallagher Pratten is very loud as well. I swear after I blow a very hard note, I can hear a sort of tinny resonance from floor registers or other thin metal objects near me.

Of course, the 'tinny resonance' may be the empty space between my ears.


I'd be interested to see actual decibel readings from various flutes played side-by-side by an experienced player who could maximize each flute's potential. Probably like the type of timber deciding a flute's tone - the true volume might not vary as much as we'd think between Rudalls, Prattens, etc.

Cheers,
-r

I've had a chance to put a sound level meter on both John's Rudall & Pratten Copies. They were just about the same - if not the same in terms of db. The Rudall does take up less sonic space though with the Pratten giving the feeling of being louder. Boy when you really lean into his Pratten the flute just shakes in your hands!

So in terms of loud... Sometimes it's just perceived loudness we're talking about. I'd be surprised if a Copley & Seerys were much different if at all in terms of db.

My .02 cents

Best,

[ojvoj]

Hello,

Marcus Hernon is one of the most powerful flute player I´v ever heard.
He can take the power out of any instrument.

[spittle]

You're right ojvoj - Marcus is a mighty player! I think it was Loren on another recent thread who remarked on an experience in the shop where a well-known flute player picked up several different instruments and sounded brilliant and powerful on each, but he definitely had his favorite of those he tried. I think the 'percieved volume' is what we're all really talking about here, since skill can get alot out of even a mediorce instrument.

I hear you Blayne - my flute vibrates like a restrained beast ready to snap it's chains! Love it!

Cheers,
- r

[Loren]

Right, a powerful player is going sound powerful on most flutes, Rudall or Pratten. The difference (in volume) between a good R&R style flute and a good Pratten style is MUCH more noticable when the player has a less developed embouchure.

Also, while a weaker player may get more "Volume" out of the bigger bore flute, they rarely sound and play better on these same flutes, since they don't have the embouchure and breath support to generate and maintain a good tone for extended periods.


Loren

[gentlemanpiper]

sorry to ask again, but could anyone advise me as to where Martin Doyle's flutes rank in the loudness stakes - is he up with the likes of hammy hamilton

[rh]

this kind of reminds me of something that's become an annual event at one of the mandolin gatherings (can't remember which one).

every year the participants enter their mandolins in a "mando tasting" event. a well-known player (it's been John Reischman for the last few years) plays the same tune on each of the mandolins, and the proceedings are recorded.

one person burns the mando-tasting recording onto cds for people to buy as a sampler, and sound clips are put up on a website as a sort of guessing game to see if people can determine which mandolin is which.

every year, it is amazing to see that many people mistake a $3k small builder's work with a $130k 1923 Gibson Loar (the holy grail of mandolins).

[Jonathan]

http://www.wintergrass.com/

I have the cd from 2003 I believe. It would be interesting to see someone organize something similar for flutes

[Jonathan]

well that was the festival site; here's the site with the info on the cd, how it was recorded, etc.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/archives/mandotasting.html

fwiw

[rh]

http://www.wintergrass.com/

I have the cd from 2003 I believe. It would be interesting to see someone organize something similar for flutes

that's it! yeah, a flute tasting was what i was thinking too...

[murrough o'kane]

I would say that the volume of the flute has a lot to do with the actual player. I personally really like Sam Murray's flutes. "Tone" is as (if not more) important than volume, but the 2 together are a powerful combination in the hands of great player, with a great flute. It's pretty pointless having "a loud flute" if the player is drowning out other players and not producing nice tones and if they don't have the technical competance. On the other hand, if the player is great and playing great music with good volume and tone, then, nice one.

[Doug_Tipple]

I recently purchased a sound level meter for the purpose of measuring sound levels produced by various flutes. The meter that I have is a CEM DT-8850, IEC 651m Type 2, tripod-mounted digital sound level meter with an accuracy of 1.5 decibels. With this instrument I decided initially to measure the level of three different flutes, played throughout a two-octave range.

The flutes that I chose for this test were three very different flutes that I personally own. Flute A is a Yamaha 385 II silver flute, with a solid silver headjoint, B foot, and French-style, open-hole keys. Flute B is a Tipple 3-piece, 8-hole PVC flute with a dimpled bore. Flute C is a Pakistani rosewood flute, revoiced in Ireland, with a conical bore. Below is a photo of the headjoints of the three flutes.



To perform the test I stood a standard distance (3 feet) away from the microphone of the sound meter. The notes that I chose for the test were: D4 (low D), A4 (the fifth), D5 (1st octave D), A5 (octave fifth), and D6 (2nd octave D). I played each note as loudly as I could with the meter set on max hold. I took several readings at each note and calculated the average. I then took an average of all five notes throughout the two-octave range for each flute. Here are the results. The numbers in the table below are sound levels in decibels.

-------------D4------A4------D5------A5-------D6---------Average

Flute A----81.0----83.8----89.5----92.4-----95.8---------88.5

Flute B----79.5----84.3----88.6----90.5-----98.5---------88.3

Flute C----76.7----85.4----82.2----91.5-----99.4---------87.0

The average sound level of the three flutes through the two-octave range is statistically the same, given an accuracy of 1.5 decibels.

[Cathy Wilde]

Being fortunate (and now poor) enough to play both a Murray and a Hamilton, I can attest to the fact that both can be very, ummm, authoritative (sometimes TOO authoritative depending on how poorly I happen to be playing them that day!). But they are a different kind of loud from each other. The Hamilton is more of an astringent, "cutting through" kind of loud, esp. in the middle register; the Murray is more of a round kind of loud, esp. in the low register -- the whole flute will vibrate ferociously in my hands, almost like it's got a subwoofer in there somewhere! (Although the Murray can seriously bark too, which is why I like it so much -- sweet to rough, deep to light, there's lots of variety there.)

I suppose the Murray is like bittersweet chocolate; the Hammy is more like a whiff of good bourbon. Or the Murray is like a crackling fire, the Hammy is like a breath of cold, fresh air thru an open window. They both can have seriously powerful flavor & feels, just different.

Anyway, that's how they sound to me, altho' most of that experience is from under my own ear.

And P.S. I do play both flutes differently from each other. Not as differently as I ultimately want to, but they do seem to require unique approaches.

And P.P.S. I think a lot of volume is the player, too. As one who's continually learning the painful way ... I think it's fine to carry a big stick, but it's also good to play softly 'til you know how hard that stick can hit.

FWIW ....