GHBs at Irish cultural events

[tommykleen]

This past weekend the Minnesota Irish Fair was held here in St. Paul (www.irishfair.com). There have always been GHBs in attendance at this fair: both pipe bands and solo/duet pipers. This year their presence was really getting to me. There are soooo many events and opportunities for these folks to play out around the area. Why do they have to play at an Irish cultural event created to promote Irish culture? Is there something I am missing? Has there always been this one-way crossover going on? If I was found playing my uilleann pipes at the local Scottish Fair I'd be chopped up, mixed with oatmeal and spices, and boiled in my pipebag for 6 hours. I actually like the GHBs...just get tired of swimming against their tide at events where I shouldn't have to.

t

[glands]

And....you'd be stuffed into a sheeps intestine when they finished all that you mentioned.

[oleorezinator]

ignorance is bliss.

[Uilliam]

Is there something I am missing?

Has there always been this one-way crossover going on?
t

Ye seem to be missing out on Irish Culture /History completely.!!!
The misnamed GHB is not the sole preserve of the Scots but was played in lots of countries throughout the medieval and earlier periods.Ireland included..indeed there is a school of thought that opines that the bagpipe was introduced to Scotland via the Irish.That is not so strange as Scotland got its very name from the Irish tribes that settled(and had always settled) in the West of Scotland...the Romans called them the Scotii(they called themselves Dermot,Sinead etc...)
Their language,customs and music travelled with them so it is not unlikely that the bagpipe came with them.In fact the name war pipes is an anglicised misnomer from the Irish Gaelic Piob Mhor(Big Pipes) pronounced in the Ulster as" pib war"
Fintan Vallely quotes in his Companion To Irish Traditional Music"...eleventh century Aonach Carman mentioning "pipes"...15thC woodcarving in Woodstock Castle Kilkenny.Galileos dad talking about them in 1581 ..both sides at the battle of the Boyne playing them...."
There is a host of reference material to the bagpipe being played in Ireland,not just in Scotii land or Scatland or whatever...
So maybe ye should refer to some of it afore ye go shooting frae the hip,sounding like an piob mhor xenophobe when the instrument is every bit as Irish,if not more so, then yerself!
My experience of playing over here in Scotland on the UPs is that most pipers and folk in general are genuinely interested in the instrument..and lets not forget that the UPs were also made in Edinburgh,London,America...so get a hold on reality and not the reality ye would like/think it to be.

PS.re Piob Mhor, I personally cannot stand the feckin noise o the things and the endless time the afficiandos spend tuning the drones.....my Grandfather was a piper in the WW1, with the Inniskillings. He survived the war in the trenches and I am pretty sure he didn't hold up the advances over the top by saying "hold on a minute boyo's I need to tune these drones up a wee bit...ah thats better..OK lets go "
Uilliam

[AaronMalcomb]

Depends on the Scottish festival you go to. I think UPs would be well received by the crowds and GHB pipers at the festivals I go to. Sure there will be GHB pipers saying "what are Irish pipes doing at a Scottish festival?" but I think you see the connection.

Uilliam's right on the historical and cultural connections between GHBs and Ireland. GHB is part of Gaelic culture, Gaelic culture was brought to Scotland by Irish emigrants and missionaries. There is historical mention of great Scottish pipers going to Ireland to polish their playing.

As far as endless tuning by "afficionados" it can be excessive. But it's actually a relatively recent thing. Yer gutcher probably didn't tune his drones because pipers just didn't spend that much time on it back then. It's only been since WWII that it's become an obsession.

Besides, GHB reeds get wet so the tone is a lot more unstable. If you don't "touch up the drones" often enough they'll sound [more] like helicopters.

Cheers,
Aaron

[tommykleen]

Thanks for the history lesson(s). I'm sure there's more to come as folks wake up on this side of the pond.

Here's the plan: I'm going to bone up on my strathspeys and apply for the local Scottish Fair next spring. Playing my UPs. Stay tuned .

t

[GELivesay]

Just think of the GHB at the events in this way, there are tons of things that Uilleann Pipers can do that the GHB piper can't do. If the GHB piper is honest, he/she will be quite impressed and jealous of what the UP piper can do. One big reason I converted to UP's is I don't have to put up with the folks telling me that I have to play a tune a certain way. I have the freedom to express the music the way I feel it should be expressed and not rigidly by the dots and cuts.

[ballysodare]

PS.re Piob Mhor, I personally cannot stand the feckin noise o the things and the endless time the afficiandos spend tuning the drones

Lemme get this straight.....an Uilleann piper is complaining how long it takes a Highland piper to tune?

sorry....2+2 suddenly equaled 5 for a moment there....

I say "who the feck cares." If I can play it...I'm gonna play it....despite whatever festival I'm at.

I remember seeing an Uilleann piper at a Scottish festival a little while ago in Spencerville. I was hanging out with the pipe major and pipe sergeant of a band I used to play in while this guy was going to town on a bunch of reels (sans drones and regulators). Now this was an open stage in a beer tent...and there was quite the line of miffed looking GHBer's who felt that this little piping heathen was taking valuable jig and reel fireworks time away from them.

Next thing I know the Uilleann piper kicks into Colonol Frasiers and hits the drones.

I'd say 75% of the audience tilted it's head and raised an eyebrow...
("Hey....Judy...get the kids...there be a man here who done turned on and off his drones!!")

The UPer keeps going on like this through the tune and then...when he gets back to the top of the ol' Colonol...he starts hitting the Regulators.

The heads of my two drinking companions snapped back as if they were on the glorious gladys and Yeager had just thrown the afterburner on. Both of these men were CAPTIVATED by what this amatuer UPer was doing despite themselves being professional competing bagpipers with rooms of accolades and trophies at home.

So there you have it....balls to the walls. If you're doing something different..you'll probably turn some heads and get a smile or two. If no one likes it...f*** 'em if they can't take a joke.


Cheers
[/u]

[Uilliam]

Here's the plan: I'm going to bone up on my strathspeys and apply for the local Scottish Fair next spring. Playing my UPs. Stay tuned .

t

There are plenty of "Highlands" ye could learn from Donegal and of course ye could ask the pipai who come to your"Irish "Festivals to perhaps play some Irish tunes..A good read is a booklet published by NPU Na Piobairi Uilleann Teoranta andRSPBA(NI) the Royal Scottish Pipe band Assoc.(Northern Ireland Branch)... "the Early History of Piping in Ireland" by Seán Donelly..The names of joint bodies aforementioned,alone, should tell ye volumes about the "history" of piping in Ireland and the fact that it is, was, and probably always has been ,entwined one with the other and an integral part of Irish culture,don't forget that the notion of nationhood is a relatively recent concept ,historically speaking ,and the Gaelic speakers would have seen each other as family or at least as kindred tribes.I suggest ye appreciate the similarities rather than the differences and save yersel a lot o angst
Slan Go Foill
Uilliam

[tommykleen]

Thanks, Uilliam. Lots of good info.

...and you didn't even call me a "git"

t

[AaronMalcomb]

Here's the plan: I'm going to bone up on my strathspeys and apply for the local Scottish Fair next spring. Playing my UPs. Stay tuned

Go for it! Learn to play with your drones propped on your shoulder and hook up a dummy blowstick. And since you'll be wearing Highland dress (as required by most competition rules) you'll have to hide your bellows under your jacket. You'll just have to pick tunes that can only be played off the knee.

Seriously though, I think more ITM folk should try strathspeys. It's like playing a reel but with the expressiveness of a slip jig. The presence of the Highland in Donegal music is proof of the cultural connection between both Gaelic cultures. In old Scottish documents, the Highlanders' language is more apt to be called Irish than Gaelic.

A good GHB piper will have some Irish tunes in his/her repertoire. And some bad ones will likely have Minstrel Boy and Wearing Of The Green and some such tunes as well.

P/M Terry Tully of the St. Laurence O'Toole Pipe Band in Dublin has a few books out of Irish tunes arranged for GHB. St. Laurence O'Toole is the first pipe band from the Republic to place in the top 6 among Grade 1 bands at the World Pipe Band Championships.

I've noticed there is a War Pipe event at the All Ireland. Has anybody watched that?

Cheers,
Aaron

[Jim McGuire]

Seamus Ennis played the warpipes and his father did too. James Ennis would compete at Feis on the warpipes; he's in that one photo wearing a kilt. Dan Dowd and Matt Kiernan played warpipes. Jerry O'Sullivan and Seth Gallagher also play both pipes. I am sure there are many others, too.

[djm]

In old Scottish documents, the Highlanders' language is more apt to be called Irish than Gaelic.

That's because it was Irish. Scots did come from Ireland, as Uilliam noted - the Dal Riada. The royal courts of Scotland used Irish as the official language of all court documents up to the 11th or 12th centuries. By that time the dialects had drifted so far apart that the Scots had to create a spelling system in their own vernacular so as to be able to create legal documents they could understand.

djm

[tompipes]

Seamus Ennis played the warpipes and his father did too. James Ennis would compete at Feis on the warpipes; he's in that one photo wearing a kilt. Dan Dowd and Matt Kiernan played warpipes. Jerry O'Sullivan and Seth Gallagher also play both pipes. I am sure there are many others, too.

Tommy Reck and Billy Andrews played Highland Pipes too. (Tommy Reck was a fine fiddle player too)
It was very common for pipers to play both Uilleann pipes and Highland pipes in days of yore. Also a lot of makers made both too. Taylor, Crowley, etc.
Did Coyne make Highland pipes? I know I saw a Coyne flute though. I don't think the Rowsomes made Highland pipe but they did plenty of repairs and maintainence.
Tommy

[marcpipes]

If the weather went extreme an wonky at one of these Irish events, you wouldn't get to hear piping at all if it weren't for warpipes because all of the U.P. players would be saving their reeds. G.H.P.'s do have the advantage of being playable in a greater variety of weather. And like a blind javelin thrower, they do get the attention of a crowd.
Marc