FREE FROM SERPENT MUSIC - A THANK YOU

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:02 pm

NicoMoreno wrote:obviously.

What's polite?

What's normal standards of politeness?

hmm?

I am not being stupid here.... I am trying to make a point.

Take your time,no rush.

Slan,
D.

OutOfBreath · Post by **OutOfBreath** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:07 pm

anniemcu wrote:...And since I make it apoint of living my life the same way I talk about it, I'll just let you carry on with your 'interpretation' of my motives. Obviously, no matter what I say, you want to see me as wrong and ...

Well, I guess the fur must be flying...

Emphasis and italics mine.

Edited to add - I just noticed Bloomy beat me to it. I think this may be the first time I've seen you speechless, Bloomy!

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:24 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:Edited to add - I just noticed Bloomy beat me to it. I think this may be the first time I've seen you speechless, Bloomy!

Well, what can I say?

happyturkeyman · Post by **happyturkeyman** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:16 pm

This thread should've fallen off the front page after about the third post.

A few sound clips, even if they consist solely of screeching, monotone reverb, are a better use of space than this pointless monstrousity.

But hey, at least we're lowering the "pr0n to text ratio" of the www. (Is it worth it?)

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:35 pm

You might be better off with the "pr0n".

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Feeding frenzy?

--James

toughknot · Post by **toughknot** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:50 pm

The mushrooms are alllll gone.....

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:04 pm

happyturkeyman wrote:This thread should've fallen off the front page after about the third post.

A few sound clips, even if they consist solely of screeching, monotone reverb, are a better use of space than this pointless monstrousity.

But hey, at least we're lowering the "pr0n to text ratio" of the www. (Is it worth it?)

It is pointless discussing debating manners and the importance of good teaching is it? Whether you realise it or not, most of the posts here were good natured attempts to clarify one or two of the central issues on this and any other music message board. Some people get angry occasionally because they are passionate about music. If you have a look at the few genuinely angry posts here you'll notice that they are all reactions to claims that are very provocative to people who've put serious work into become good musicians.

MurphyStout · Post by **MurphyStout** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:39 pm

Hehe, I must say I've enjoyed reading azalin's posts in this thread.... it's a damn shame I have to sift thru the rest to find them.

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 2:52 am

Of the two main topics, "Who has a right to teach" and "Who has a right to play at sessions", I'll chime in on the latter.

From my experience there are times when a beginner should play and times when they shouldn't.

If I were to go into a room and find a few people who know each other and have great skill, I'm not going to join in. I'd be too embarrassed unless they asked. However if I get together with a player far better then myself for the sake of playing, I don't mind as I figure I'll learn something.

The two things that bother me most is 1) Someone who is absolutely tonedeaf and incompetent takes over a jam (I use "jam" as opposed to "session" to imply different kinds of music then IT). Example, the person who cannot tune a guitar yet plays louder then anyone else. The person who cannot sing yet shrieks above all others.

2) Someone who hijacks a jam with a type of music totally at odds with everyone else. I went to a bluegrass/folk jam once and somebody started playing blues on a piano. OK that's fine for a bit. However they then started working their way into jazz chord progressions etc until the entire bluegrass nature of the thing was lost. Not to mention he liked to play in F# which didn't endeare him to the beginners nor the hammered dulcimer player. A bunch of us moved to another room and sadly there was another piano and Mr. Jazzman showed up to repeat the process. Fortunately nobody would give him an inch and it turned out he had no idea how to play any of the bluegrass standards. How he could play all those great jazz chords but not capture the rhythm of bluegrass is still beyond my understanding.

I love jazz btw but it just didn't fit at that time.

I hope someone will argue with me so I can have my 15 minutes of self-righteous indignation.

happyturkeyman · Post by **happyturkeyman** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 3:03 am

peeplj wrote:You might be better off with the "pr0n".

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Feeding frenzy?

--James

If anyone is confised about "pr0n" it is always good to, uhh, change a certain word around so it doesnt come up on some peoples' searches...

Just a little internet wisdom

And as far as this thread goes, I think I can resist the urge to beg for it's death again until, oh, say, page 18 or so.

I suppose I'm adding to it as I type, but heck, I'm too tired to care.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:52 am

The interesting thing about the really polite people here is that they didn't contribute to this thread but two sent me a private message saying basically' I fully agree with what you said but couldn't you have said it in a different way'. We discussed it in private and left happy. I appreciate these posts.
Another, much larger, number of people reacted in private to agree with me.
The people here who vehemently oppose what I said and the way I did it, did not do that by addressing me directly but always by discussing what I said as if I wasn't there.
How's that for manners, now we've come to talk about it?

bjs · Post by **bjs** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:56 am

Forgive me if I missed this - wayding through 13 pages on a slow modem is slooow. If someone has a URL for a download of an `approved' version of the Kesh Jig I would appreciate it.

Brian

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:35 am

bjs wrote:Forgive me if I missed this - wayding through 13 pages on a slow modem is slooow. If someone has a URL for a download of an `approved' version of the Kesh Jig I would appreciate it.

Brian

I doubt you'll find one.

There are several "unapproved" versions out there, though, that might serve almost as well.

Which one is easiest for you to learn from will likely depend on where you are at in your playing and what your ears have learned to hear.

For a very new player, for instance, trying to learn from a full-speed version with rolls and cuts I would think will lead only to frustration and confusion: it'll be a musical blur.

For a more experienced player, a slowed-down, simplified, non-ornamented version is just going to sound wrong, though it might be a better version to help a brand new player get the notes under his fingers.

The Kesh is an enormously popular tune. There are many recordings in Clips & Snips and on member sites. You shouldn't have any trouble finding several different versions online, played by artists of widely varying levels of skill and experience.

--James

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:47 am

peeplj wrote:
For a more experienced player, a slowed-down, simplified, non-ornamented version is just going to sound wrong, though it might be a better version to help a brand new player get the notes under his fingers.

--James

Now there is the essence of this discussion James. A well played basic simple version is perfectly fine BUT a basic version is more than a string of notes and that is what you, and others in this discussion, seem unable to grasp. What I would call a simple basic version, slow if you like, has it's rhythm and phrasing correct, ideally it has 'lift'. Giving the opportunity to learn that is the very essence of passing on a tune and provide the opportunity of learning by ear and that is a completely different kettle of fish than reproducing the notes from the page.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:58 am

Peter Laban wrote:
peeplj wrote:
For a more experienced player, a slowed-down, simplified, non-ornamented version is just going to sound wrong, though it might be a better version to help a brand new player get the notes under his fingers.

--James
Now there is the essence of this discussion James. A well played basic simple version is perfectly fine BUT a basic version is more than a string of notes and that is what you, and others in this discussion, seem unable to grasp. What I would call a simple basic version, slow if you like, has it's rhythm and phrasing correct, ideally it has 'lift'. Giving the opportunity to learn that is the very essence of passing on a tune and provide the opportunity of learning by ear and that is a completely different kettle of fish than reproducing the notes from the page.

I agree.

I don't think I've commented on any particular recording on this thread, though. Do be careful of assuming you know what my opinion is when I haven't given it yet...and won't, in this instance at least.

You're a good guy, Peter, but you do come on strong.

--James