"I don't play them. I just make them"

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 10:51 am

Well yeah, but not anything with a bellows!

Loren

amar · Post by **amar** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:29 am

Teri-K wrote:
Bloomfield wrote: Oh, Blackhawk, funny that you mention TeriK. Nice enough as a person, I guess, but really couldn't play worth sh*t. Said she was a "crap" player, did she? Well, she was always a bit stuck up on herself and fond of exaggerating her skill. But it is sad, really, with another 10 years' hard work she could have been mediocre, for sure. Didn't have the guts for it though: She did a clip of the Flogging Reel once, and started drinking heavily shortly after, no wonder. It was downhill from there, Blackhawk, I'm afraid. I'm not in touch with her anymore, and I doubt there is anything anyone can do for her now. She's taken up the accordion, I hear.
Well, it’s certainly nice to know who your friends are!

Part of your account regarding my descent is true. The Flogging Reel was my downfall. Due to my dedicated research, and misinformed impression of the title’s meaning, I found myself sliding further and further into a world of leather, dog collars, and whips. Yes, the drink was soon to follow. That, coupled with my inability to be anything more than a crap player, destroyed my life. After playing for 10 years at the crap level and not having the guts to invest another 10 to achieve mediocrity, I turned my back on the whistle.

The thought of making crap whistles for other crap players did enter my mind. But, my hands shook until noon each day from the gin making it difficult to operate the hack saw. Plus, with the desire to make whistles only for my closest crap friends, the operation would not have been profitable.

Then, one morning as I awoke in the gutter – a frequent predicament for me – I saw a vision! It was an angel in a Salvation Army uniform, standing on the corner playing the loveliest music on her accordion. I was a changed woman! She took my hand and led me down the path towards the world of squeezing. How liberating! I no longer had to endure the guilt of being a crap blower. I could finally admit, as so many women my age yearn to admit – we really don’t enjoy blowing.

My regret is that I wasted ten years blowing when I could have been squeezing.

wasted 10 years in blowing?
NOT.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:08 pm

I have to admit it is possible for someone who doesn't know how to play to make a good instrument. I wouldn't bet too much money on it, though. As Old Man McGee says in http://mcgee-flutes.com/flutepick.html (talking about flutes):

Terry McGee wrote: First be convinced about the maker:

does he/she seem knowledgable about the flute, its history, the old makers?

is he/she a good player? If not, how do they know they are making good instruments?
[...]

Please check that page and read the rest of it; it's worth it.

What i seem to see consistently with makers that are not players is that they make choices about what's desirable ("a little bit of airy chiff", "higher air requirements to make the second octave easier", etc, are the kinds of things that come to mind) without knowing if those things really matter for a player or not. Being novices in whistleplaying, they're in fact making whistles that are good for beginners, but not necessarily good for advanced players.

That's one reason why we have so many whistles that sound insanely great when you pick them up and blow a soulful slow phrase, but which you just can't tollerate playing 2 hours of reels and jigs on. And i'm finding out that it may take 2 or 3 weeks of daily playing sessions before these differences start to show. But they do, eventually. (If you play the whistle once every other week, and mostly blow slow soulful phrases, then you and i are talking about different things. I'm not putting you down, but the whistle that works for you may not work for me.)

Does this make sense?

g

avanutria · Post by **avanutria** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:17 pm

I personally know a musician who plays several instruments, and makes several instruments, and they don't all overlap. One of the instruments that this person makes (but does not play) has a very good reputation in the music community. I will not identify this maker unless they ask me to, but I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear that this particular maker does not play.

Perhaps the secret is that this maker consults many many players about what they want in their instruments. Perhaps a lot of things. It's hard to generalise anything, I think.

Even though that's a very general statement.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:36 pm

I think there is a separate talent, the ability to hear "make the whistle less airy but give it a bit of ring," or "make it where I can punch it a little bit harder," or "can you make it take a little less push on the high B" and actually produce an instrument that can do that.

To play a whistle well, you have to know the details of playing music.

The make a whistle well, I think you have to have an almost instinctive understanding of how air moves and breaks against surfaces, of what kind of shape and contour will lead to what characteristics of sound and response.

I don't think that's a talent you will find among many whistle players, even the best ones.

You will find that the best makers have it in spades, though.

And no, I didn't make any of this up. I actually first ran across this concept in an interview with Matt Molloy somewhere online, where he was talking about Olwell and his flutemaking skills.

--James

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:13 pm

I haven't read this thread right through yet so let me apologise in advance if someone's already made the point I'm about to make. But reading what is on this page I doubt that anyone has.

The people who make and design racing cars are not the people who test drive them. Quite different skills are required for these tasks. But, without having an insider's knowedge, I'd bet that a good test driver has to understand a very great deal about design and manufacture and would have to talk the language of both fluently. Likewise, a good designer would have to understand the language of drivers and their special desires and needs.

If you had similar communication, why would a good instrument maker not be able to collaborate with a good 'test driver' to produce good or even great instruments? Probably the maker would have to play well enough to understand the language and hear the things the good players are talking about. But being able to produce them wouldn't be necessary I think.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 2:26 pm

Wombat wrote: The people who make and design racing cars are not the people who test drive them. Quite different skills are required for these tasks. But, without having an insider's knowedge, I'd bet that a good test driver has to understand a very great deal about design and manufacture and would have to talk the language of both fluently. Likewise, a good designer would have to understand the language of drivers and their special desires and needs.

If you had similar communication, why would a good instrument maker not be able to collaborate with a good 'test driver' to produce good or even great instruments? Probably the maker would have to play well enough to understand the language and hear the things the good players are talking about. But being able to produce them wouldn't be necessary I think.

I agree.

That's it exactly.

--James

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:41 pm

emmline wrote:Whoa Bloom...I think you've lost your chance at a date.

That's ok. I didn't want to date Blackhawk in the first place (not that there would be anything wrong with it).

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:22 pm

Bloomfield wrote:Pardon me, Serpent/Billw for using your quote here in the topic. I don't mean to harp on it, but it's the clearest statment of the proposition I'm after..............

Typically, your topic is fettered
by an equation which emphasizes the player
and omits the listener ............

You see, the player is not the sole arbiter
of quality - the listeners are also critical:
what is HEARD.

My comments are premised on
the whistle maker him/herself not being deaf.

You do not need to be an expert player
to appreciate fine music.
(Otherwise everybody would need to submit
their audio clip before they could buy tickets to a concert

)

toughknot · Post by **toughknot** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:40 am

Having pondered AND having discussed this thouroughly in an alernate space in the exact same space at exactly the same time , I have reached the conclusion that this disscussion, topic, is merely using up the remaining population of electrons (which is I believe endangered) which could be put to better use actually solving problems or spreading joy( electrons origional and intended use) or maybe even a picture of a pretty ladies Hiney.Can anyone here channel Einstein? I have something I've been meaning to ask him.

amar · Post by **amar** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:52 am

your wish is my command

toughknot · Post by **toughknot** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:56 am

Thanks amar,that is one glourious glutt.

amar · Post by **amar** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:03 am

i thought i owed that to you...after the lookfordifference post..

toughknot · Post by **toughknot** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:28 am

Thanks amar.That got me to finally post after 2 years of lurking.I've enjoyed reading your posts , lots of good humor as well as whistle info.I've made up for lost time by posting about 12 times already. Hope my humor doesnt offend anyone.I spend most of my time interacting with patients in end or late stage Alzhiemers.Glad to meet you and look forward to reading more posts.

amar · Post by **amar** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:36 am

coincedence, i myself am working on a geriatric ward myself, lots of alzheimer patients here as well, obviously..

welcome to the club. (meaning the whistle-club.

)

Chiff and Fipple Forums

"I don't play them. I just make them"

Listening.