Seeking advice on workshop content ...

[tim-hart]

Hi all. Hope you're having a great summer.

I'm working on updating my workshop content and could use some advice on what folks want in instruction. Would you mind answering a couple questions in an informal survey?

Always aiming to please!

tim

1) What's the top thing you wish whistle instruction would include more of? What's one thing you wish instructors would dump?

2) What's your priority when attending workshops? Learning tunes? Working on technique/troubleshooting? Getting to know other players/making new friends? Experimenting with different styles? Other....?

3) What's the worst experience you've had in a whistle class or workshop and why (please don't name names, unless of course it was me -- I can take it . ) What's the best, and why was it the best?

4) What makes you want to go back for more? What makes you want to stay away?

Thanks. I really appreciate your insights.

Cheers,

tim

[glauber]

I want to hear/see stuff that i can't get on my own. Stories, perspectives on playing, different nuances of interpretation, ideas for variations, etc.

[burnsbyrne]

I've only been to one workshop and if that's what they're like I won't go to another. 90% of the attendees were under 25 and quite proficient on the whistle. The teacher took us through learning a tune by playing it and by writing the note names (ie, C G F D etc.) on a chalk board, line by line. After the first line or two I quit trying to even fake that I was getting it. I could have learned that tune on my own with a recording and the sheet music so I guess I learned that whistle workshops are not for me.
What I'd like to learn in a workshop is basically what Glauber said in his post above.
Mike

[burnsbyrne]

I've only been to one workshop and if that's what they're like I won't go to another. 90% of the attendees were under 25 and quite proficient on the whistle. The teacher took us through learning a tune by playing it and by writing the note names (ie, C G F D etc.) on a chalk board, line by line. After the first line or two I quit trying to even fake that I was getting it. I could have learned that tune on my own with a recording and the sheet music so I guess I learned that whistle workshops are not for me.
What I'd like to learn in a workshop is basically what Glauber said in his post above.
Mike

[colomon]

I think learning tunes in a workshop is a waste of time, at least for me. The problem is that without some sort of outside reinforcement, I won't remember the tunes. My guess is I manage to retain about one tune for every five hours of workshop. Repertoire workshops are great fun, but not great learning tools.

I usually need to listen to a tune a good bit before it sticks with me. Probably the best workshop I ever took was a flute masterclass with Peter Horan, precisely because all he did was play whatever tunes he could think of (and ask us to play tunes we liked). It made for a fairly engaging class, and two years on, I still regularly listen to my recordings of his playing there. I know I'll be studying them for years. (And I dream of acquiring recordings of the fiddle masterclass he did the same week.)

So I think -- if your playing is interesting enough -- this is a great way to run a class.

The other thing I really like in workshops is studying ways of playing tunes you already know -- ornamentation, variation, style, etc. It's a lot easier to retain a good portion of what is taught, and it's something that's harder to work out on your own.

Obviously these approachs are not particularly appropriate for beginners...

[LeeMarsh]

For better beginner workshops, things that would help me:

• Cover less but cover it more thoroughly.
• Any tune you teach make sure everyone plays it through at least 6 times befor going on. For most, it's part muscle memory and part aural memory. For most, like me, this means playing it over and over and over and over.
• Don't teach the tune; teach how to learn tunes; and then, use the tune as a practical example that the student can take with them and apply to other tunes. For example, learn the notes the first couple of times through, then the next couple of time, learn the feeling or flow of the tune, then perhaps a couple of time were you experiment with various settings such as slower, faster, more ornamentation, less ornamentation while asking which way speaks to the musician, which way speaks to the moment.
• Teach the student what to listen for in their own play. Listening with ear and with mind and with heart. Again opportunities to work on muscle memory while learning other things too. If folks have the basic bones of the tune down, teach them how to hear not only what they are playing but how it fits in with what those around them are playing. Are they going to fast for the person next to them to enjoy their own play? Are they playing bouncy when the person next to them is trying to play clear and smooth? You could even have an assistant that can accompany the class on another instrument or instruments.
• Only use tunes you have a connection with, a passion for; tunes that are special to you because enthusiasm is contagious. It's the disease your students want to catch, infect them with your music.
• Have fun and enjoy the process of teaching taking pleasure in each students improvements. If your rewarded by the experience, it's more likely each student will be to.

I'd rather walk away from a class owning one tune than having 3 or 4 tunes that I've rented. So teach me thoroughly how you ...

[tim-hart]

Wow, this is great feedback and I just posted a couple hours ago. Thanks. This is all very valuable input.

cheers,

tim

[missy]

we teach a different instrument (mountain dulcimer) but what we try to accomplish:

We teach technique - NOT repetoire - and we say this up front. Depending on the level of students we have (and sometimes this needs to be very loosely defined, we have wound up with everything from a "string side up" to fairly advanced in the same class) we will offer different styles of playing, ornamentation, adding spice to tunes, changing rhythms, etc.

We recently did a workshop where we KNEW there was going to be different levels attending (we were the only dulcimer workshop at an old time festival). We started by asking each participant what THEY would like to work on or learn or have ideas about. We then took those and did a kind of "round robin" - asking participants to help with those areas they might have ideas on. We took one song, and used it to demonstrate all of the things we were talking about. We also always ask for feedback - and this one got a lot of positive comments.

Our goal in teaching - whether it's workshops, group, or private lessons, is to enable the student to go out and learn the type of music they want to play. So, we don't teach repetoire, we teach the ways a student can build up their own.

[BillChin]

While not music or whistle specific I can offer these suggestions:
* less material, more interaction
* have something for the beginner, intermediate, and advanced, with the most material for the specific level you are targeting.
* humor is your best friend
* I always enjoy a good story or two

Specific to music: for beginners, learning tunes is a must. Take the time to accommodate the slower folks in a beginner class, even if it bores the faster learners. If at all possible have an assistant to lend a hand, or get some of the stronger students to help the others. This keeps them from getting too bored and moves the entire group forward. For intermediate and advanced classes, give the peacocks in the group an opportunity to strut. The other players (and perhaps you) can learn from them.

Index cards, and comment cards are a great way to get feedback. What did you like best? Worst? Want more of? Less of? Most surveys will give you little of value but 20% will help you shape your material. Asking and chatting during the time before the official start is a good way to get a feel of what people want.
+ Bill

[franfriel]

Wow, some great suggestions here.

I would add to be gentle to the tender musician ego and ALWAYS find something good to say about your students' playing and questions.

My teaching mentor could take the most bizarre question from an audience member and turn it into a great teaching tool while making the asker feel wonderful. Now that's mastery.

AND I would also add, have fun and do what YOU love. They'll love it, too.

I wish you a joyful and madly successful workshop!

Peace,
Fran

[tim-hart]

Thanks, everyone for your great feedback!

Cheers,

tim

[FJohnSharp]

I was at the same workshop Burnsbyrne was at and I hated it too. It was just tune after tune aafter tune and I never did learn them.

I think I'd like to go to a workshop where we all could play the same ten tunes or so and then the instructor went through and showed us nuances that make the difference between playing them and playing them well. Things like phrasing, breathing etc. Showing us how different ornaments work differently. Teach us music, not tunes.

[CHIFF FIPPLE]

Don't teach the tune; teach how to learn tunes

So just how can you teach this, I would just love to beable to learn a new tune in an hour, it often takes me at lest two days before I can get it down to my liking

[talasiga]

I second both
Lee Marsh and Missy.
I have never gone to any ITM workshops
but have had similar experiences to Burnsbyrne at
Indian Music "workshops" so I empathise.

Being a musician and being a Repertoire Robot are two different things.

And, to Chiff Fipple, I must say,
"One need not specifically learn to drive round the Ring of Kerry
to be able to drive round the Ring of Kerry. See?"

[CHIFF FIPPLE]

And, to Chiff Fipple, I must say,
"One need not specifically learn to drive round the Ring of Kerry
to be able to drive round the Ring of Kerry. See?"

Mmm thats Irish right enough