Sealing a leather bag

hosehead48 · Post by **hosehead48** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:18 pm

Is there anything that works good in sealing a leather bag from small leaks. I see in the highland pipes they use a product called Air tight. I was wondering if any of you had any good ideas.
Thanks
Hosehead48
Proud Salt Lake Piper

djm · Post by **djm** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 1:56 am

UP bags aren't normally sealed. GHB bags are exposed to moisture from the player's breath, so they need to be sealed, but UPs are powered by bellows, so shouldn't need sealing. However, there are those who are convinced they need to seal their UP bags. There are some existing threads on this if you do a search on "seasoning" or "sealing" on the UP forum archives.

djm

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:09 am

Isn't it great getting information off the internet where everybody is an expert!

I don't know about other bags, mine is sealed and the maker who made my pipes always sealed the bags he made. Using a mixture of olive oil and beeswax. Leather maybe slightly porous and it's not a bad idea having sealing in place where the stocks are tied in..

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 2:26 am

<Isn't it great getting information off the internet where everybody is an expert!> quote...

Yes the misinformation that the net causes, the rumours it spreads. Geeez, you can even end up with a different nationality if you don't put people right!

Oh yes, Latex, very good for sealing thoses little leaks.

Alan

Bigbore · Post by **Bigbore** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:14 am

Most pipebags made now are of non-porous leather, they don't need much seasoning. In the old days this wasn't the case and you needed lard+beeswax, olive oil+beeswax, whatever. Boiled potatoes. A lot of these recipies would come right through the leather unfortunately, resulting in greasy pipers.
Quinn wrote a good article about bellows and went over the issue of leather. Beeswax+neatsfoot's oil+rosin's used by Northumbrian pipers.

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:20 am

A mixture of honey, glycerine and scotch in about 1/3 proportions workswellfor dry and mouth blownbagpipes. One or two teasoons massaged into the seam should do the trick. Cork the drone and chanter stocks and inflate the bag to make sure it goes into the leaks before it dries. Use it sparingly or let it hang draining overnight so it doesn't muck up your reeds with excess seasoning. The latex route should work well also. You'll be able to find it in a shop that caters to mask makers and special effects people. Most art supply shops should have it too. If you use Air Tight seasoning, make sure you refridgerate the un-used portion as it has a tendancy to go rancid. You don't want to be known as the person with the puke pipes.
Marc

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:51 am

There used to be a product out there called "Sil-Seal," a silicon based sealant for pipe gags. Wonderful stuff, no mess or smell, and one treatment ment would usually last years...probably a life time for dry bags. Sorry I cannot give you an exact site to find it, but I'll bet if you surf some of the GHB sites you'll find it. Good luck.

John S · Post by **John S** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:00 am

You might try anhydrous Lanolin (wool fat), which works great on GHB bags appart from preventing any water exchange through the leather, which should not be a problem for UPs.
Just warm it up until it melts and pore it in.
I get mine from the local Boots Chemist.
John S

jordan · Post by **jordan** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:49 am

Andreas rogge sells a great bag seasoning. easy to use and will probably last indefinately. And it's non-greasy, so it won't wreck your best piping shirts.
http://www.uilleann-pipes.de/english/index.html
it's on the prices page under accessory.
jordan

m coulter · Post by **m coulter** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:34 am

Witch's brew concotions may be all well and good for our mouth blown friends, personly i'd just use laytex - might not sound hugely traditional but if it'd been around in the old days i suspect the old makers would have used it.

however eye of toad, wing of bat, fat scraped from the underbelly of a pig during full moon etc... does sound more mysterious!

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 12:54 am

Self edited. Soon to be gone.

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:12 am

Most of the bags made by L&M or MacHarg and bought by Americans and not many others are airtight without seasoning. And bellows are only airtght assuming the seams and bellows stitching/nails are perfect, which they often aren't. So even in a perfect world some sealing is necessary, if not at first, often eventually.

NSP makers may have recently seen the light, but until these last few years they used leather cured by urinating on rawhide, smoking it over a fire and then chewing it till soft or something. Airtight was not something you got without a lot of beeswax and neatsfoot oil etc. This sort of leather is probably pretty common in regions around the world where they do a lot more piping than in the US for instance.

The latex advice however, should preceed the introduction of any oil at all into the bag or bellows. Once you've greased it up, the latex will just slide off and ball up and shoot out into your reeds for the rest of your life. So use the latex first and only--then powder it dry with some talc after it's all cured so it doesn't stick together.

For the L&M fans, I use a mix of 1 part vegetable shortening and 3 parts pure flax or vegetable soap. Pour it in, slosh it around, inflate hard to check seams and tie-in points, then drain overnight and let dry for a day or two before playing. That's it pretty much forever, and mostly to treat the leather and insure against seams and joints etc, not to seal up the pores of the leather--though it does a good job of that as well if need be.

Put the flax or vegetable soap, the syrupy liquid version, into a microwave for about 30 seconds, with the shortening floating in it. That should warm it enough to melt the shortening. Then whirl it together into an emulsion. Pour it in hot, and pour it out hot and drain as much as you can, you really don't want a lot left in there. Unlike the wax/oil based versions, if you put too much in, wait too long, or end up with a gob (unlikely) you can swish around some hot water and it'll all wash out.

As for SilSeal, it was crap for Highland pipes and it'll be even worse crap for uilleanns. The main function for Highland seasoning, apart from plugging little pores and seams, is absorbing moisture. The latter of which SilSeal didn't do at all, and the former of which it did only in a bag essentially airtight in the first place. In fact, that last thing you really want in a Highland pipe bag is to not pass any moisture though it at all, to trap it all inside, and then on top of that not absorb any of it and hold it in suspension (which Airtight does superbly) so it will just puddle in the bag and then dribble out on you. But this may be an argument and an understanding of Highland moisture control systems and theory way way beyond those who bought and loved "SilSeal" or filled their bags eagerly with anything from pure lard to treacle and honey, because it "stopped the leaks," while never bothering to notice the syrup and filthy water running down their chanters--perhaps because they never had to play in tune for hours in sun and rain and plugging the holes was sufficient a concept to handle for most Highland pipers in 1975. We won't make that argument here, but the most detestable thing Sil Seal, and in fact Airtight did and does, is flake and blow out in big puffs once it dries out. Airtight may take a while to get to the flaking point, but it always does. Thus, both, all, and all derivatives, in fact, most Highland based seasonings, plugging holes, stinking or not stinking, are not a good idea for uilleann pipes application.

Royce

No E · Post by **No E** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 10:52 am

I can vouch for Royce's flax soap/Crisco method. I used it on a 6-year-old leather bag and presto! the leaks were sealed. It remains mildly redolent of Murphy's Oil Soap, but that's like the flowers in the spring compared to some of the other bag-seasoning concoctions out there.

No E

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 4:30 pm

John S wrote:You might try anhydrous Lanolin (wool fat), which works great on GHB bags appart from preventing any water exchange through the leather, which should not be a problem for UPs.
Just warm it up until it melts and pore it in.
I get mine from the local Boots Chemist.
John S

Oddly enough, and for whatever reason, molecules being molecules and all, lanolin does allow moisture to pass through the bag, so for instance, if you've really soaked them down, you can leave the bag out overnight, preferably with the blowpipe and chanter out, not sealed in a case, and between the air getting through the stock openings and the caplillary action through the pores, by morning it should be very dry. It also for some reason holds a bit of moisture, though other substances should be mixed in for those purposes in Highland pipes. But it's great stuff for UP.

Smells a bit sheepish naturally, but I like that smell.

Royce

djm · Post by **djm** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:23 pm

Royce wrote:Smells a bit sheepish naturally, but I like that smell.

Wow, did you ever have an unguarded moment. Nope, it won't be me who says it.

djm