New Sony Hi-MD recorder

Rockymtnpiper · Post by **Rockymtnpiper** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:55 am

I tried a Mini-Disc recorder a couple years ago, and after going through that.. I will not trust them again.

First of all, their concern about Bootlegging recordings is adsurd.. and illogical. Fact #1 the Greatfull Dead doesnt play many shows anymore. Fact #2 Dead Heads are the only people who will pay money for bootlegged concert recordings. Fact #3 given that the Dead doesnt play too many live shows.. :roll: Concern over the USB being a two way affair is irrational.

I am considiering the Fostex MR8 and a 512 or maybe 1gig flash card. As far as I can tell, its far superior to any MD in that it has seperate tracks, and there are no moving parts.

The way it is now, Mini-Discs are nothing more than a glorified $20 tape recorder... because thats how the data is being transfered INTO computers.

eskin · Post by **eskin** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:23 pm

Here's the Marantz website with info on the PMD-670:
http://www.marantzpro.com/Products/PMD670.html

and here's the manual for download, in English:
http://www.marantz.com/pdfs/e_pmd670_man.pdf

as far as the question on editing in the device, I can't help you there, as I just download the files into the PC and do all my editing there. It does have some editing functionality built-in, but I haven't had a reason to read that part of the manuals. I just reformat the card (since I share them between cameras and the PMD-670), set my levels, and start recording. I use an external USB card reader on the PC, although the PMD-670 does have a USB port.

jmccain · Post by **jmccain** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 4:44 pm

Rockymtnpiper wrote: The way it is now, Mini-Discs are nothing more than a glorified $20 tape recorder... because thats how the data is being transfered INTO computers.

Some of this is partially true. Most decks have digital out. It would be more convenient to have the portable recorder have dig out, but if one likes all the features of minidisc but has to have the digital output, decks can usually be found quite cheaply on eBay.

To say that minidisc is a glorified $20 tape recorder is an incorrect exaggeration. A $20 tape recorder will not have the sound quality, convenience, editing features, and long battery life of modern MDs.

MD are a staple in the college and postgraduate music education field. And in some "folk" fields, too. Attend, say, a H. Moore smallpipes school and you'll see most attendees with MDs. Your apparent bad experience is a singular event not shared by most.

Best, John

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:00 pm

I like MD, but my position is that it's better to consider it a glorified tape recorder and be happy with it than to think it should be a fully-capable digital recorder and be irritated with it.

Digital out is nice, but what we really want is to download the "files" that are in that disk to the PC so we can edit them there, assemble them into CDs, etc. Even better, we want to be able to record uncompressed audio (or lossless compression) and transfer that to the PC as a file. These things are coming, in units like the Marantz, but as usual, the high price devices are coming to market first. If things go as they usually do, the low cost devices should be with us in a year or two.

But the MD still delivers great sound at a great price, right now. A very good tape recorder, it is.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:47 pm

Rockymtnpiper wrote:First of all, their concern about Bootlegging recordings is adsurd.. and illogical. Fact #1 the Greatfull Dead doesnt play many shows anymore. Fact #2 Dead Heads are the only people who will pay money for bootlegged concert recordings. Fact #3 given that the Dead doesnt play too many live shows.. :roll: Concern over the USB being a two way affair is irrational.

Yes, but they're not worried about people taping concerts; they're worried about people bootlegging commercial recordings. They wanted to "fix" the CD problem. You can be 100% sure that when some new format replaces CDs, this new format won't allow you to make perfect digital copies at home.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:48 pm

eskin wrote:http://www.uptospeed.net/mp3/eskin/sess ... 20_006.mp3

Zounds! Cracking tune, Michael! Thanks for posting it.

ErikT · Post by **ErikT** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 1:10 am

Here's what I'm considering. It seems to be about the right size, plus it works with my PPC which I already use for recording sessions. Kind of expensive, though.

http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html

Erik

beowulf573 · Post by **beowulf573** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:34 am

Thanks, Michael, for posting a link to the user's manual. For some reason I couldn't find it. Probably a lack of caffeine.

From what a quick read tells me, there doesn't seem to be any built in track editing. You can set what they call EDL marks to customize playback, but it doesn't seem to create a new file.

Perhaps it time I reconsider how I manage my audio files.

The recording sounded fantastic, I may looking into the Marantz in another few months. I just bought a flute from Terry McGee and can justify a new toy right now.

thanks,
Eddie

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:20 am

ErikT wrote:Here's what I'm considering. It seems to be about the right size, plus it works with my PPC which I already use for recording sessions. Kind of expensive, though.

http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html

Erik

That looks cool, Erik. Too bad my PPC doesn't have a CF card slot.

/Jens

Caj · Post by **Caj** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:39 pm

glauber wrote: Yes, but they're not worried about people taping concerts; they're worried about people bootlegging commercial recordings. They wanted to "fix" the CD problem. You can be 100% sure that when some new format replaces CDs, this new format won't allow you to make perfect digital copies at home.

I guess that's the explanation: they figured that maybe, just maybe, the MiniDisc would supplant the CD.

And then, if it did, it would be nice if they could keep people from ripping MiniDiscs like they rip CDs.

Ironically, I suspect that exerting control over their format is part of the reason it hasn't taken off. If they just allowed any company to make a MD player with any features, there would be more of them and cheaper, and companies would already be manufacturing MD "floppy drives." But such a loose policy would basically mean throwing away the DRM.

Or maybe it's not ironic. "DRM" restricts what customers can do, to a specific set of allowed uses. Customers buy less because the technology is less valuable. I'm more likely to buy a frying pan than an electric waffle iron, because I can use a frying pan for all sorts of things.

Caj.

beowulf573 · Post by **beowulf573** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:08 am

One last note, found this a while ago:

<a href="http://www.minidisc.org/himd_mdcenter_news.html">HiMD News</a>
Uploaded tracks can [currently] only be played back on the PC by using the supplied SonicStage2 ("SS2") software.
Extended SonicStage software will become available that will be able to burn audio-CD's.
Exporting from Extended-SS2 to WAV is still unknown.

So what this amounts to is that:

1) on the first release you'll have to use their software to play the tunes back.

2) Probably will be abled to burn CD from the tracks at some as yet unspecified date.

For this means I'll be giving up on MD. Too bad, Sony, I kept waiting but I've been left at the altar too many times.

Eddie

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 1:45 pm

Right on, Eddie!

Caj · Post by **Caj** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:24 pm

beowulf573 wrote: HiMD News

Uploaded tracks can [currently] only be played back on the PC by using the supplied SonicStage2 ("SS2") software.

That is utterly daft and pointless. What are they smoking?

So, a consumer can digitally upload music from the MD to the PC, but he/she is only allowed to do the same thing the MD player can already do: play the music back.

Then why upload in the first place? I suppose to make backup MDs in case the MD is lost? Or make mixes and compilations and put them back on the MD? Sorry, but I upload to the PC in order to make WAVs and MP3s of my lessons. I upload to get the bits off the MiniDisc. This is what I've been waiting for, and if they want to keep customers waiting, fine. While I wait, I will check out the competition.

Here's another worry: even if the software lets you convert to WAV, this doesn't mean the conversion is lossless. If Sony is paranoid, for instance, they might end up adding a digital watermark to the music. An audio watermark can incur a quality loss---negating the whole point of having a digital upload in the first place.

Caj

beowulf573 · Post by **beowulf573** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:51 pm

The Weekenders wrote:Right on, Eddie!

Power to the People!

Eddie

beowulf573 · Post by **beowulf573** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:57 pm

Caj wrote: That is utterly daft and pointless. What are they smoking?

I really wish I knew, because they came so close.

It's systemic to Sony, as I mentioned before, the new eBook reader from Sony sufferes from the types of problems. Not only can you only download books you buy onto the device, the eBook disappears after 60 days and you have to buy it again! As <a href="http://www.dottocomu.com/b/archives/002 ... l">this</a> reviewer said:

So the end analysis is that this is a great first step device that showcases some cutting edge technology as well as pointing out that genetically altered monkeys should not be allowed to submit marketing plans for Sony. Until there is a hack out there for personal published documents (like there is for the Rocket Book) this product will go down in Sony's vault for stupid expensive ideas. At least it's so small it should fit. It's getting crowded down there lately.

At least I can watch whatever I want on my Sony TV, although that may change in a future versions!

Eddie