I am curious how many session players there are on Chiff. Hence, this poll. I have been to one session one time and it was not a pleasant experience. Maybe it was the stars lining up against me.
Please write about your session experiences good and bad.
Thanks,
Bill
How many session players on board?
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jen f
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I've had mostly pleasant experiences. I started going to sessions last fall, only a few months after beginning tinwhistle. The other players were very welcoming and encouraging. The first time, I only knew a couple of tunes, but I keep learning a few every month and now I can usually play about half.
I have noticed that most regulars play more than one instrument. So...what's next? Fiddle? Mandolin? Maybe I'd better work on perfecting my whistle playing a little more first!
I have noticed that most regulars play more than one instrument. So...what's next? Fiddle? Mandolin? Maybe I'd better work on perfecting my whistle playing a little more first!
I'm very fortunate here in this city and in Detroit, that I have a weekly opportunity of playing in four sessions in a weeks time. All have been running fairly regularly over five or six years.
Only one doesn't follow the IRTRad session, the person that leads it prefers Old timey music but does play ITM when we gang up on him and when we get a round going, we can move just as fast as him it starting the next tune round.
The other three sessions are ITM's to the core, although some diversions are welcomed.
All in all we have a very healthy ITM society here in the Windsor, Ontario, Detroit, Michigan area.
MarkB
Only one doesn't follow the IRTRad session, the person that leads it prefers Old timey music but does play ITM when we gang up on him and when we get a round going, we can move just as fast as him it starting the next tune round.
The other three sessions are ITM's to the core, although some diversions are welcomed.
All in all we have a very healthy ITM society here in the Windsor, Ontario, Detroit, Michigan area.
MarkB
Everybody has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
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feadogin
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There has been lots of stuff posted here about session etiquette, but to reiterate some of it:
You didn't really say why you had a bad experience at the session, but if it was because the players were unfriendly:
1. at some advanced sessions you kind of have to prove that you have the chops before the players will be friendly to you. (Try a different session if that's the case).
2. Or sometimes the players are just unfriendly because they don't know you, and they don't know if you are going to disrupt the session by playing too loudly/ messing them up, etc.
So if that's the case, you might just want to go back to the same session a few times and give the players time to get to know you.
In any case, I wouldn't give up on sessions altogether. Keep trying until you find a good one. I've been playing in sessions for years, and even now there are definitely good nights and bad nights for me in terms of sessions. Maybe that session was just having a bad night...
And as other people have said before, get Barry Foy's book for all the details of session etiquette.
Good luck,
Justine
You didn't really say why you had a bad experience at the session, but if it was because the players were unfriendly:
1. at some advanced sessions you kind of have to prove that you have the chops before the players will be friendly to you. (Try a different session if that's the case).
2. Or sometimes the players are just unfriendly because they don't know you, and they don't know if you are going to disrupt the session by playing too loudly/ messing them up, etc.
So if that's the case, you might just want to go back to the same session a few times and give the players time to get to know you.
In any case, I wouldn't give up on sessions altogether. Keep trying until you find a good one. I've been playing in sessions for years, and even now there are definitely good nights and bad nights for me in terms of sessions. Maybe that session was just having a bad night...
And as other people have said before, get Barry Foy's book for all the details of session etiquette.
Good luck,
Justine
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Cayden
I remember playing inside Friel's in Miltown Malbay once, maybe four or five years ago, with a very fine whistle and fluteplayer, the late Tommy McCarthy was playing the concertina. There was a man sitting in the far corner. After we had played for maybe an hour or more he completely unannounced pulled a susato from his pocket and played Si Bheag Si Mor. When he was finished he waited five seconds and played everyone's favourite Kerry polka [fABA fABA..]. After that he put the whistle away with a bit of a dirty look, disappointed maybe non of the musicians joined in [his whistle was tuned about a quarter tone away from the concertina and the rest of us]. He never spoke to any of the musicians before or after he played.
That's not really playing at a session but it is an excellent recipe for disappointment
That's not really playing at a session but it is an excellent recipe for disappointment
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Azalin
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I really think that what most people don't get is that being able to show up at a session, sit down and play tunes isnt only about talent. If you have the right attitude, you site and show that you respect the session, people will warm up to you and will even *ask* you to play Fanny Poer for them, half a tone up or down.
I often hear here how "rude" the other people in the session were to them, and in my head I'm like "yeah right, that's one side of the story".
When I started playing like 4-5 years ago, I sucked big time (still do but not as bad), but I remember quite well that I had the right approach in our local session. I sat quietly, talked to musicians, didnt try to start tunes, waited to be invited, did play along *only* the tunes I really knew, didnt play a freaking Susato in a quiet session, etc. It took years but I got accepted by a few old timers, which are now happy to see me and play tunes with me.
A complete stranger could play like I do, sit down in this session, and be *hated* by everyone. This is what you gotta understand.
Off course, it also come down to the quality of the music you're playing. There's nothing more annoying than someone who tongues every note, or plays the fiddle as if he/she was playing classical music and from sheet music, plays so fast you'd think it's a Dervish CD, etc. It just doesnt *flow* and *blend* with the rest, it kills a certain chemistry there that can only be achieved by players who are mostly same level.
You know, if Kevin Crawford and Catherine McEvoy were playing in a session, I would not be stupid enough to sit and play unless invited, but many here would, and I think this is a problem with some people's attitude.
I would say it's even more complex. If you sit in a session where people are mostly playing polkas and slides, well, you don't start with your 4 sets of reels. You need to respect where the session participants are taking the session to, unless you want to hijack the mood and take over. There's a flute beginner here in Montreal, and the problem is that he will come up with his slow airs, all the time, like 6-7 slow airs in 2-3 hours, and he will shoot them just after a good set of reels where people were warming up and ready to get some juice out of that session. This is something that just shouldnt be done.
Anyway, I could go on forever, and then, I talk only for a few of us as I know my views are somewhat narrow, but believe me, you can have lotsa fun when you play with people who share the same view you have on the music, or if you're just able to adapt to your environment.
I often hear here how "rude" the other people in the session were to them, and in my head I'm like "yeah right, that's one side of the story".
When I started playing like 4-5 years ago, I sucked big time (still do but not as bad), but I remember quite well that I had the right approach in our local session. I sat quietly, talked to musicians, didnt try to start tunes, waited to be invited, did play along *only* the tunes I really knew, didnt play a freaking Susato in a quiet session, etc. It took years but I got accepted by a few old timers, which are now happy to see me and play tunes with me.
A complete stranger could play like I do, sit down in this session, and be *hated* by everyone. This is what you gotta understand.
Off course, it also come down to the quality of the music you're playing. There's nothing more annoying than someone who tongues every note, or plays the fiddle as if he/she was playing classical music and from sheet music, plays so fast you'd think it's a Dervish CD, etc. It just doesnt *flow* and *blend* with the rest, it kills a certain chemistry there that can only be achieved by players who are mostly same level.
You know, if Kevin Crawford and Catherine McEvoy were playing in a session, I would not be stupid enough to sit and play unless invited, but many here would, and I think this is a problem with some people's attitude.
I would say it's even more complex. If you sit in a session where people are mostly playing polkas and slides, well, you don't start with your 4 sets of reels. You need to respect where the session participants are taking the session to, unless you want to hijack the mood and take over. There's a flute beginner here in Montreal, and the problem is that he will come up with his slow airs, all the time, like 6-7 slow airs in 2-3 hours, and he will shoot them just after a good set of reels where people were warming up and ready to get some juice out of that session. This is something that just shouldnt be done.
Anyway, I could go on forever, and then, I talk only for a few of us as I know my views are somewhat narrow, but believe me, you can have lotsa fun when you play with people who share the same view you have on the music, or if you're just able to adapt to your environment.
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Nanohedron
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Good Lord, Peter, that sounds just like the fellow we've been dealing with of late! The stories his behavior gives us will last as cautionary tales among the Twin Cities sessioners probably forever.
One time, a whistler called for a tuning break, and he said, "Why bother with tuning?"....I kid you not.
One time, a whistler called for a tuning break, and he said, "Why bother with tuning?"....I kid you not.
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Cayden
Az, these storiesare endless, usually people who sit down and have a chat and an eye for the social aspect will be accomodated but there's always people who come in and make an arse of themselves. Last summer we had a guitarplayer coming in who was not all that sensitive [they are usually the guys who think they are brilliant] he came in, typically with his guitar not in any case or bag, said hello, put the instrument on the stage where we were playing. He went for a few pints and then in mid tune he wriggled into a seat on the middle of the stage between myself and the accordeon player and started whacking away [notice the immediate whacking away in midtune, tuning didn't come into it].
Jackie Daly is usually fairly accormodating, telling guitarists who need it which tunes are coming, what the key is and what the chords are but your man just didn't get it. At some point we were playing the Tuar Mor polka's [Jackie recorded them with De Dannan and they are pretty standard since] the first one starts in A and goes in to D for the turn , the second one has a first part in D [starting on a Bm] D but has a turn in A. Your man was first struggling to get the rhythm, then he was trying to figure out the chords [he tried them all before considering A as a key]. The third time through the first tune he had it more or less figured so he really whacked into it when we changed into the second tune expecting the same keys itseemed. When we finished th second run of the second tune he noticed that maybe this one had anothe structure/key. It was hilarious to watch but fairly annoying to play with all night. :roll:
Jackie Daly is usually fairly accormodating, telling guitarists who need it which tunes are coming, what the key is and what the chords are but your man just didn't get it. At some point we were playing the Tuar Mor polka's [Jackie recorded them with De Dannan and they are pretty standard since] the first one starts in A and goes in to D for the turn , the second one has a first part in D [starting on a Bm] D but has a turn in A. Your man was first struggling to get the rhythm, then he was trying to figure out the chords [he tried them all before considering A as a key]. The third time through the first tune he had it more or less figured so he really whacked into it when we changed into the second tune expecting the same keys itseemed. When we finished th second run of the second tune he noticed that maybe this one had anothe structure/key. It was hilarious to watch but fairly annoying to play with all night. :roll:
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TonyHiggins
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There is a huge variance in how sessions go. Just like churches, families, countries, whatever. Depends upon whom and why. I've been to a number of different ones from basic beginner- everyone staring at music sheets (went once), to a 'slow-players' that evolved to a bit faster and more accomplished over a couple of years, still goes on and is extremely welcoming of newbies. Been to a big, noisy session w/ about 10 fiddlers, you name it, everyone going 90mph in a big, noisy pub, to small, intimate groups of accomplished players (where I didn't know but a fraction of the tunes and mainly sat and listened- not very fun for me.)
When I was new to sessions, I attended the big noisy one. No one spoke to me throughout. I was able to jump into a few tunes. It was interesting and intimidating, and I was put off by what I felt was a lack of friendliness. My expectations were not in line with the group's. I've been back a few times and know more tunes now. I still don't have much conversation with anyone. I intend to go back again, but no more than maybe twice a year just to check my own changes. I hate driving home after only playing a couple of tunes and thinking, 'I could have been practicing at home and playing my heart out.' (I did actually get asked to do a solo at the big session, once. I played a slow air.)
I have a lot of respect and fondness for the people in the slow players group, but I don't attend any more. I did for a couple of years once a week. It was a comfortable setting and it was nice knowing everyone's names. We even had potlucks from time to time. As my own playing evolved, I grew away from the attraction of group playing. It was a novelty for me to begin with. I had been playing by myself at home for a few years before ever playing with anyone. Why did I stop attending??
Just as an example of one person's personal preference: I found I prefer the inward focus of working on tunes by myself. I like to play what I want to learn and on a given evening, I may pound one tune into the ground, learning it and exploring its possibilities. I play at my own pace and keep going over areas I want to improve. I search for the nuances and experiment with the phrasing. Obviously, you don't do that in sessions. I know, people talk about bouncing energy off the other musicians. I appreciate that and have enjoyed it. I currently get together with a friend who plays bouzouki and we work out arrangements together. (So can't I go to the session once a week?) Well, there's a very slow addition of new tunes, which I may or may not like. I get restless playing the same tunes week after week. Gotta have new stuff on a regular basis to keep my interest up (I also believe it improves the skills and improves the playing of the older tunes.) So, now, for group playing, about all I do is a very occasional party/wedding type of affair and invite one or two others to join me.
My advice, if you're going to make a commitment to any session, is learn that session's repetoire. It will be distinct from another's. If you can record the session and use that to learn the tunes, that's your best bet. People on the board have advised attending for months without ever playing. That will work if you have the patience, which I definitely do not. Sessions may not appeal to every personality. That's my whole point. I can take them or leave them. If that makes me an IrTrad outcast, lost to the spirit of the whatever, well, whatever.
Anyway, Peter, the bouzoukist, if that's a word, and I will be playing for about 40minutes on the community stage at the Dunsmuir House Scottish Highland Games in mid-July.
Tony
When I was new to sessions, I attended the big noisy one. No one spoke to me throughout. I was able to jump into a few tunes. It was interesting and intimidating, and I was put off by what I felt was a lack of friendliness. My expectations were not in line with the group's. I've been back a few times and know more tunes now. I still don't have much conversation with anyone. I intend to go back again, but no more than maybe twice a year just to check my own changes. I hate driving home after only playing a couple of tunes and thinking, 'I could have been practicing at home and playing my heart out.' (I did actually get asked to do a solo at the big session, once. I played a slow air.)
I have a lot of respect and fondness for the people in the slow players group, but I don't attend any more. I did for a couple of years once a week. It was a comfortable setting and it was nice knowing everyone's names. We even had potlucks from time to time. As my own playing evolved, I grew away from the attraction of group playing. It was a novelty for me to begin with. I had been playing by myself at home for a few years before ever playing with anyone. Why did I stop attending??
Just as an example of one person's personal preference: I found I prefer the inward focus of working on tunes by myself. I like to play what I want to learn and on a given evening, I may pound one tune into the ground, learning it and exploring its possibilities. I play at my own pace and keep going over areas I want to improve. I search for the nuances and experiment with the phrasing. Obviously, you don't do that in sessions. I know, people talk about bouncing energy off the other musicians. I appreciate that and have enjoyed it. I currently get together with a friend who plays bouzouki and we work out arrangements together. (So can't I go to the session once a week?) Well, there's a very slow addition of new tunes, which I may or may not like. I get restless playing the same tunes week after week. Gotta have new stuff on a regular basis to keep my interest up (I also believe it improves the skills and improves the playing of the older tunes.) So, now, for group playing, about all I do is a very occasional party/wedding type of affair and invite one or two others to join me.
My advice, if you're going to make a commitment to any session, is learn that session's repetoire. It will be distinct from another's. If you can record the session and use that to learn the tunes, that's your best bet. People on the board have advised attending for months without ever playing. That will work if you have the patience, which I definitely do not. Sessions may not appeal to every personality. That's my whole point. I can take them or leave them. If that makes me an IrTrad outcast, lost to the spirit of the whatever, well, whatever.
Anyway, Peter, the bouzoukist, if that's a word, and I will be playing for about 40minutes on the community stage at the Dunsmuir House Scottish Highland Games in mid-July.
Tony
http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm Officially, the government uses the term “flap,” describing it as “a condition, a situation or a state of being, of a group of persons, characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite reached panic proportions.”
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Cayden
I don't think you're alone in that Tony. I think the whole concept as the session as the focal point or centre of the tradition [as it has been called here] is a bit of a misconception. I enjoy playing tunes with people I know but the idea of walking into a place where there are large groups of strangers rolling off the tunes all night does not appeal to me at all.TonyHiggins wrote:Sessions may not appeal to every personality. That's my whole point. I can take them or leave them. If that makes me an IrTrad outcast, lost to the spirit of the whatever, well, whatever.
Tony
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Nanohedron
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I have some reservations about the understandable idea that attending a session and being only able to play two or three tunes is possibly a waste of one's time. The opportunity is there to either get tune names and later hunt down the dots, discreetly record tunes and learn them, or just pick up the tunes as they come to you over time. I'm certain that easily 90% of my repertory has been got from repeated listening at sessions while quietly -so I don't disturb anybody- trying to get the fingering of them until it sticks. This is one way of good practice, I think. Besides, the open ITM session is normally a social event, and being able to contribute socially is important.
It took a couple of years or so for me to be fully accepted in the local sessions, more quickly by some than others, but that's as I expected. It seemed pretty obvious to me that others' caution was based on how I presented myself over time, because they didn't know me. I could have been a session-wrecker, for all they knew. Once that was cleared up, it was for me to learn the local standards and to play them acceptably, because without that, my status would remain as an outsider. This makes all the sense in the world.
It took a couple of years or so for me to be fully accepted in the local sessions, more quickly by some than others, but that's as I expected. It seemed pretty obvious to me that others' caution was based on how I presented myself over time, because they didn't know me. I could have been a session-wrecker, for all they knew. Once that was cleared up, it was for me to learn the local standards and to play them acceptably, because without that, my status would remain as an outsider. This makes all the sense in the world.
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TonyHiggins
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No argument about that at all. I'm just pointing out individual preference. I know people who say they get all their practice and learning from sessions. It's just not what I'd prefer to do. My focus on the music is very different than the session focus. As weird as it may come across, music for me is not a social event. It's more a meditation. For others, it clearly a social thing. The ultimate question in my estimation is: Are you enjoying yourself?I have some reservations about the understandable idea that attending a session and being only able to play two or three tunes is possibly a waste of one's time.
In the evening after work, dinner, visiting with the family, I'm dying to get upstairs, pull out the whistles, and get into that groove. The practicing, polishing in an attempt to reach some internal goal of perfection, that's what it's about for me. I live for it. The allure of session playing pales in comparison.
Tony
http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/newspage.htm Officially, the government uses the term “flap,” describing it as “a condition, a situation or a state of being, of a group of persons, characterized by an advanced degree of confusion that has not quite reached panic proportions.”
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RonKiley
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I have never been to a session. I don't know if any sessions exist anywhere near me. If I did find one I certainly would not attempt to play. My only contact with people playing live music is at the 2 or 3 festivals I get to attend each year. That makes it a bit hard to learn the music the way its played. I mentioned on another thread that I only get to hear music on CDs or MP3 downloads. Many times I don't know if the individuals are playing in a traditional style or if the they are trying but failing miserably. This leaves me learning alone with my Bill Ochs book and a few CDs and MP3s. I envy some of you that have such regular contact with others.
Ron
Ron
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Nanohedron
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I don't think that's weird at all. It's meditative for me, too. I just like the craic of playing with good friends. But that's the thing. Like Peter, I'm less than thrilled with large groups full of strangers; hereabouts we like our sessions on the small side, but when they're big and we all know each other, it can be mighty!TonyHiggins wrote:As weird as it may come across, music for me is not a social event. It's more a meditation.
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eskin
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As for me, there is nothing quite like a small, tight session, where the players can just about read each other's minds...
That's the kind of musical relationship I have with the fiddle player at the session we co-host on Tuesday nights here in San Diego... Scary sometimes, it feels like we're an old married couple...
I have very little desire to play in larger sessions. (more than 6 or 7 players). Invariably, there always seems to either be a guitarist without a clue or a bodhran/dumbek/conga player who plays too loud and can't keep a beat...
My dream sessions are when there are one or two fiddles, one or two flutes, one skilled DADGAD guitar or GDAD bouzouki player, a quiet bodhran, and me on the pipes/whistle. Maybe add a mandolin or tenor banjo (skin head, no resonator).
Michael
That's the kind of musical relationship I have with the fiddle player at the session we co-host on Tuesday nights here in San Diego... Scary sometimes, it feels like we're an old married couple...
I have very little desire to play in larger sessions. (more than 6 or 7 players). Invariably, there always seems to either be a guitarist without a clue or a bodhran/dumbek/conga player who plays too loud and can't keep a beat...
My dream sessions are when there are one or two fiddles, one or two flutes, one skilled DADGAD guitar or GDAD bouzouki player, a quiet bodhran, and me on the pipes/whistle. Maybe add a mandolin or tenor banjo (skin head, no resonator).
Michael