Musical Snobery

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:24 am

Somewhere along the line started taking me seriously.... just to clarify, I was kind of joking about almost everything I've posted here.... kind of.

Chris

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:29 am

Most of what is perceived as snobbery is the result of two opposing tendencies: the tendency of the newcomer to be hyper-sensitive about their presentation and the tendency of the regulars to have control and hierarchies. If you can clear that away, the common courtesy of being aware of what is happening at the moment ought to be guidelines enough.

The need for explanations of session etiquette (which can be perceived as snobbery) are the result of being so far removed from the homogenity of real Irish culture, where local people get together and know how each other feel and behave on a continuing basis (thus the "rules" are unstated but present). For some, the stating of the rules is already too much, the spontaneity and inclusiveness have been lost. For others, control is comfortable and familiar. Because I am of the former, I miss out on the "perceived joys of the session (Peter's quote, I think)."

Much of what I read here as sessions sound more like alphas and acolytes, the latter who delight in slamming metaphoric doors in newcomer's faces. Like all snobbery, the point isn't really about the FACTS of any tradition as much as the hierarchies involved, stemming from insecurity, often the result of varying abilities. It's a very sad development, and seems far removed from some village in Clare.

I can take almost anything but the burr in my saddle is the following. To be corrected or reprimanded by someone whose major credential is a huge collection of trad CDs, yet who has rarely played in public or been a performer for any length of time in any kind of music is downright weird.

The minute a person changes from saying, "well, I hear them usually play it this way" to "you should play it this way" is the dividing line of civility. Just that little bit of self-reserve makes all the difference.

Montana · Post by **Montana** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:33 am

Hey Chris,
I knew you were just kidding (the humor is dry but not transparent). I was just carrying the joke along. Hope no one read it as a slam.

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:41 am

ChrisLaughlin wrote:I just wanted to make a few points....
Whistle is ONLY for Irish music. Period. End of story. If you argue, you're wrong and will be punished in the afterlife.

You heard the man. Turn or burn!

ChrisLaughlin wrote:Reels are played in sets with reels. Jigs are played with jigs. Don't mess it up.

Apparently someone forgot to tell that to the folks from Altan. Also, someone forgot to tell them it is a sacrilege to draw inspiration from Scandinavian, Baltic, or (God forbid) ENGLISH music!

ChrisLaughlin wrote:If you break any of these rules we'll break your fingers.

OUCH!!!

ChrisLaughlin wrote:O'Carolan is for wussies.

O'Carolan is a visionary, as is Dowland and Morricone, and I adore Cherish the Ladies, Solas, Luka Bloom, Capercaillie (talk about sacrilege), and Nadine Laughlin. By the way, who was that dude who played whistle for her? I can't seem to remember his name!

P.S. - Missy, if you send me your e-mail address, I'll send you my versions of "Apache" and "Lonesome Boatman", and I may even throw in the bridge section of "Nights in White Satin" played on a Dixon G for good measure.

ChrisLaughlin · Post by **ChrisLaughlin** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:46 am

I don't know who the dude playing on Nadine's CD is. It sure as heck wasn't me, because I ONLY play trad.... only! Otherwise I'd have to break my own fingers.
Chris

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:54 am

ChrisLaughlin wrote:I don't know who the dude playing on Nadine's CD is. It sure as heck wasn't me, because I ONLY play trad.... only! Otherwise I'd have to break my own fingers.
Chris

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:04 pm

ChrisLaughlin wrote:Somewhere along the line started taking me seriously.... just to clarify, I was kind of joking about almost everything I've posted here.... kind of.
Chris

Me, take you seriously, oh come on now, get serious. I thought you were taking ME seriously.

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:52 pm

Only a snobe would take you guys seriously..sheesh.

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:58 pm

ChrisLaughlin wrote:As a matter of fact, I tried playing one of those wierd "Breton" tunes on my flute the other day, and after three notes the headjoint cracked clean through the embouchure. Now everything I play sounds like English Morris Dance music.

Those can be played safely, albeit carefully, if the flute is made of boxwood. Don't listen to the people who say you need to drink wine when playing such music, though; if your bitter or stout is dry enough, you'll be okay.

missy wrote:WHAT??? You mean there is only one accepted way and one accepted style of playing a whistle and all else is heresy???

As some of you know, I mainly play mountain dulcimer - the whistle is an "added" instrument for some songs. I've run into the same, ah, attitude in dulcimer players. When we teach, the very first thing we tell students is there is NO RIGHT OR WRONG WAY to play the instrument, there is just YOUR way. Making music that you enjoy is what it's all about. Sharing with people is what it's all about. Learning from others is what it's all about.

Yep, just have a listen to Dick Farina, Janita Baker, and Neal Hellman back to back. Three great players, and you'd barely recognize that they play the same instrument. The thing I love about the dulcimer is that virtually everybody who plays it is self-taught, which leads to so many different styles.

I understand the points that people are making about session etiquette. The old "When in Rome do as the Romans do." I'm also a fan of learning the rules before breaking them. I'm not a huge fan of Joanie Madden, but I have an immense amount of respect for her as a musician. You don't have to like her new-agey solo albums, but she's a damn fine traditional musician, and as far as I'm concerned she's earned the right to play anything she wants in whatever style she damn pleases.

This is also similar to "beer snobbery". I make beer and drink a lot of good stuff, so most people think I'm a beer snob. But on a hot day after a day of work outside, I'm not going to reach for a porter, stout, or pale ale. It'll be a cheap, cold, refreshing American beer. Same with music -- I listen mostly to folk music, but there are just some days when nothing short of Black Sabbath or Steppenwolf or Charles Ives will do.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:12 pm

Jking, I see snobbery as stemming from the snob's own insecurities whatever his/her skill level. There's always somebody whose route to self-esteem is that of ranking others, and the sooner the better, thank you very much. Now, if my playing can't speak for itself, I don't play. Otherwise, I just ignore the snob and play. After all, there I am, I'm playing as traditionally and as skillfully as I know how, and the others present seem to be just fine with it.

I've had to wear down some snobs through sheer obstinacy and time. I'm very patient when it comes to that (although rather less so when it comes to real session-wreckers, but of course that's not what you were talking about). I'm still being ranked by some who've known me for years, and yet invite me to perform with them. Figure that. AND I'm still being ranked by some who can hardly play a lick at all, or only a couple of tunes! Just can't get away from it, sometimes. You should hear me rant to my friends when I've had a bellyfull.

Thankfully, I find snobbery in my stomping grounds to be not too prevalent.

Still, chalking snobbery up to insecurity doesn't altogether take the bite out of being the besnobbed. More "teflon" is the way I go, and raising my skill level. That's the final measure in my book, and it's good enough for me. If that's not good enough for someone else, I suggest to myself that there are inner issues afoot, and play on.

french · Post by **french** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:50 pm

only in itm is snobbery speld with 1 "b".

burnsbyrne · Post by **burnsbyrne** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:51 pm

french wrote:only in itm is snobbery speld with 1 "b".

Shouldn't that be snobheirghie?
Mike

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:00 pm

burnsbyrne wrote:
french wrote:only in itm is snobbery speld with 1 "b".
Shouldn't that be snobheirghie?
Mike

Didja know there's a band named "King Laoghaire"?

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:01 pm

Nanohedron wrote:I see snobbery as stemming from the snob's own insecurities whatever his/her skill level.

I disagree. In the case of a musical genre that a person lives, sleeps and breathes, loving and respecting its purity and authenticity has very little to do with insecurity.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:10 pm

JessieK wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:I see snobbery as stemming from the snob's own insecurities whatever his/her skill level.
I disagree. In the case of a musical genre that a person lives, sleeps and breathes, loving and respecting its purity and authenticity has very little to do with insecurity.

Jessie, I agree, but I don't see snobbery equating with respecting purity and authenticity.

In my experience those who know the most about the tradition don't come across as snobs. I've never yet seen Harry Bradley or Conal O'Grada (to name two well-known and well-respected artists who frequent these boards) snob anybody. Yet these guys are the Real Deal; they really do live and breathe the Tradition.

--James