harp and dragon pipes?

cheddar299 · Post by **cheddar299** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:37 pm

anyone have an opinion on the pipes available at Harp & Dragon out of New York?

http://www.harpanddragon.com/uilleann.htm

Thanks!

Chadd · Post by **Chadd** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:58 pm

cheddar299 wrote:anyone have an opinion on the pipes available at Harp & Dragon out of New York?

Just about everyone has an opinion about those pipes. They're made in Pakistan and distributed in the U.S. by Mid-East Mfg. Search the forum for "Pakistan" and you'll find plenty of opinions to digest.

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 4:16 pm

Check out the topic entitled "anyone know anything about these pipes" on the UP forum page.

John Mulhern · Post by **John Mulhern** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:03 pm

Cheddar, please check your PM's.

cheddar299 · Post by **cheddar299** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:49 am

To All,
Thanks for the heads up, and the PM John. I didn't see on their site anything about Pakistan, but the price did seem to good to be true. Guess I'll have to keep trolling Ebay.

Thanks again, this board is a great resource.
-Cheddar

plaintiger · Post by **plaintiger** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:42 pm

cheddar299 wrote:To All,
Thanks for the heads up, and the PM John. I didn't see on their site anything about Pakistan, but the price did seem to good to be true. Guess I'll have to keep trolling Ebay.

Thanks again, this board is a great resource.
-Cheddar

i've heard that Pakistani sets are often of quite acceptable quality for getting started, and they'll cost you a lot less than a handmade set from someplace else. i have a Pakistani chanter now and i'm going to get one of these starter sets so i can start working on my coordination without having to spend $1500.00 to do it.

basically, those prices aren't at all too good to be true unless you have illusions about what you're buying - in fact, you can get the same equipment for a little bit less by going <a href="http://stores.ebay.com/Other-Worlds-Eth ... s">here</a> and putting "uilleann" into their search thingy. a Wooff set it ain't; get you started it will.

w.

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:54 pm

I really have to disagree with you on this plaintiger. Do you work for these guys or what?

I have seen a couple of these sets and they are beyond doubt, the worst, most unplayable sets I have ever had the disappointment to hear.... disappointment from the owners that is, whom were very upset that these pipes they bought were completely useless. With one guy the scale on teh chanter actually seemed to get lower as you went UP!?!?

I think to buy one of these sets to simply get your bellows coordination going is rediculous. You'd be better off buying a whistle and learing a few tunes. The bellows coordination will come in a very short time with practice.

I can't speak for the overhauled sets that Tim Britton is doing as I have no experience with them.

If there are experienced players out there that have good things to say about these sets please 'pipe up'. I can't believe anyone would consider these sets when there are good makers out there that will get you a good set within in a few months. These things just aren't worth the heartache.

Patrick.

WannabePiper · Post by **WannabePiper** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:21 am

Patrick,
Although I'm far from experienced, I do have to say that Brittonized gear is quite playable, plus he gives great service (as if he made them himself) Tim himself seems to think they are quite adequate, once he has worked his magic on them, and given them proper reeds. I can't really speak to their ability to give a really nice tone, as I'm still only a handful of tunes in with no teacher yet, but mine does play fairly easily and well in tune with itself and concert (A=440)pitch. It would definitely be best to order from him directly, but he is willing to work on these if you get them elsewhere.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:33 am

Patrick D'Arcy wrote:I really have to disagree with you on this plaintiger. Do you work for these guys or what?

.

No Pat he plays a mouth blown chanter with a plastic reed. Sums it about up i would think.

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:41 am

You can lead a horse to water...

plaintiger · Post by **plaintiger** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:29 pm

Peter Laban wrote:No Pat he plays a mouth blown chanter with a plastic reed. Sums it about up i would think.

guilty as charged. i guess i'm speaking too freely here, from not enough experience (though in fact i never claimed to be speaking from experience). i've heard from *one* player that some Pakistani equipment can be of acceptable quality; the truth is that i don't even know what kind of player the guy is who told me that. and for my part i'm glad to hear the indignance with which Mr. D'Arcy says the pitch on some of these things goes down as one plays up the scale: my Pakistani chanter does that sometimes on a note or two and i thought that was just the nature of the uilleann pipes, or that it was because i do mouth-blow an instrument that's not intended to be mouth-blown.

i'm also glad to *finally* hear a directly-expressed opinion of Pakistani stuff (besides that one guy's who apparently misled me). i haven't seen one before in all my cruising around on Chiff & Fipple - even in this thread, that started with someone asking about the quality of Pakistani stuff.

so now i just have to wonder - would it follow that, if someone could learn the basics on one of these Pakistani practice sets, when they then got their hands on a real practice set they'd find them incredibly easy to play? or would playing the bad stuff just instill bad habits?

thanks again, Patrick. i feel like i have a little perspective on the Pakistani stuff now.

walt

plaintiger · Post by **plaintiger** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:17 am

hey, now wait a minute. i've thought about this and i stand by what i said. first i said i've been told that Pakistani sets can be of acceptable quality. do you have a problem with that statement, Patrick? do you have reason to believe i haven't been told that?

second, i said that $300.00 for a practice set isn't too good to be true unless you have illusions about what you're going to get for your $300.00, and i stand by that statement as well. if you spend $300.00 on a practice set expecting a $1500.00 set, or even a $700.00 set in return, well then you're a damn fool and you deserve every bit of the disappointment you suffer as a result. if you spend $300.00 expecting a $300.00 set, you get what you pay for and what you expect. and that's simple objective truth as well.

don't be jumping down my throat for speaking the truth.

that said, i'm still glad somebody finally spoke up about the relative quality of these sets because i didn't know about it before. i've since looked at Patsy Touhey's Hints to Amateur Pipers and seen that he too recommends buying the finest practice set one can afford. sadly, that's what i've done in buying my bellowless, bagless Pakistani chanter (i'm not exactly reeling in the cash these days) - but at least that, along with Patrick's comments, has convinced me that my next step has to be a quality practice set, rather than whatever sorry bag and bellows (or stolen duck) i'll be able to afford before then. and so now, with my newfound knowledge, that's what i'll recommend to others who ask.

and you can scoff all you want at my mouth-blown Pakistani chanter with the plastic reed, but at least when i do get a practice set i'll know what my fingers need to do to produce scales and a few tunes, and i think that's a lot better and smarter - and that it says more about my dedication to learning the instrument - than not playing at all because some arrogant elitists - oh, excuse me: purists - disapprove of my equipment.

Bill Reeder · Post by **Bill Reeder** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:01 am

I think I can relate to this. Years ago, when I began to consider playing pipes, I bought set of cheap Pakistani parlor pipes. All I wanted was to find out if I had any aptitude for playing - I wasn't even sure that I would like it. I was perfectly willing to chalk up the price of that set as the price of an education. The pipes were crap and I knew it, but I messed around with them long enough decide that piping was something worth pursuing. It wasn't long after that that I ordered a set of Sloan smallpipes. The parlor pipes went into the trash bin and life hasn't been the same since then.

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 6:17 am

plaintiger wrote: and you can scoff all you want at my mouth-blown Pakistani chanter with the plastic reed, but at least when i do get a practice set i'll know what my fingers need to do to produce scales and a few tunes, and i think that's a lot better and smarter - and that it says more about my dedication to learning the instrument - than not playing at all because some arrogant elitists - oh, excuse me: purists - disapprove of my equipment.

That answer will ensure a lot of help from people here in the future will it not?
Arrogant elitists..., hmmm..
Let me turn that one on you, clueless n00b!

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:59 am

I think you are only fooling yourslf into thinking your are learning the pipes. You're NOT. You're playing with a chanter and with the idea you may become a piper that way. I see it in the young pipers I teach, they never struggle with the fingerings, they all struggle with the bag/bellows/blowing coordination to begin with. You can't separate the chanter from the bag.
You are not in any way doing anything that will help you further. You would, in my opinion, be much better off learning irish music on the whislte and then, once you have the money, follow Touhey's advice and buy the best practice set you can afford. And please note he said a practice set and not a chanter with a p[lasic reed and a few feet of rubber hose. Arrogant elitist that he was.

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