Bill Ochs CD - The Quaker's Wife

[Janine]

Since so many of you have suggested the Bill Ochs Tin Whistle book, I got even though I already had another tutorial.

You'll be happy to know that you were right - it's a great tutorial...even for those who already read music!

There's a sound in the song The Quaker's Wife - it's the 12th measure (including the repeated measures) with the dotted C and D. It's a sort of sliding sound and I love it, but can't copy it.

Can anybody please tell me how it's done?

Thanks,
Janine

[Darwin]

I think he's sliding from the B in the previous measure to a half-holed C natural. I'm just a beginner, though, so I may be wrong.

[Pat Cannady]

The Ochs tutor is a fun way to get started, so I'm glad you're enjoying it. I started playing whistle with that book about ten years ago.

One tiny nit: "Merrily Kiss the Quaker's Wife" is a jig, not a song. Songs are words sung to a tune. A jigis a kind of dance tune, usually in 6/8 time but occasionally in 12/8 (slide or single jig) or 9/8 (slip jig).

Sliding up from the B to the Cnatural is a common trick on whistle and pipes alike. On whistle, you finger the B as you would normally and just sort of curl your finger away from the tonehole. Be sure to find some way to hold the whistle steady while you do this. I usually rely on my lips, thumbs, and the small finger of my bottom hand to steady things up - but I have slightly longer than average fingers. Experiment and find what works best for you.

[Janine]

Thank you both for your help, I've got it down pretty well now.

For some reason, on the whistle I was using, I could not get the slide to work, so I switched to a Dixon tunable, and bingo! Now, my goal is to sound as good as Bill Ochs.

Thanks for sharing your interesting idea about defining songs and jigs. For me, anything with a melody is a song, words or not, dance or not.

[Pat Cannady]

Ask any musicologist or serious trad/folk music performer- a song may be sung to several different melodies or tunes. A tune may have its own name and a completely different orgin from a song associated with it. Many, many, tunes or melodies have no songs associated with them.

For example:

The old cowboy song "Streets of Laredo" is sung to a melody often associated with a much older irish song, "The Bard of Armagh". The melody or tune is in fact an old harp tune whose name escapes me at the moment.

In a similar vein, "Danny Boy" is a song composed in the early 1900s by an Englishman. He borrowed the melody from irish harping traditions - a tune usually called "The Derry Air".

I'm not just a lone crank spouting off wacky theories - this is a commonly accepted distinction in traditional and folk music circles.

[burnsbyrne]

Ask any musicologist or serious trad/folk music performer- a song may be sung to several different melodies or tunes. A tune may have its own name and a completely different orgin from a song associated with it. Many, many, tunes or melodies have no songs associated with them.

For example:

The old cowboy song "Streets of Laredo" is sung to a melody often associated with a much older irish song, "The Bard of Armagh". The melody or tune is in fact an old harp tune whose name escapes me at the moment.

In a similar vein, "Danny Boy" is a song composed in the early 1900s by an Englishman. He borrowed the melody from irish harping traditions - a tune usually called "The Derry Air".

I'm not just a lone crank spouting off wacky theories - this is a commonly accepted distinction in traditional and folk music circles.

This is a good point. Another is that all of Emily Dickenson's poems can be sung to the tune of "The Yellow Rose of Texas" Just thought I'd contribute.
Mike

[bjs]

I have been working through Bill Ochs book too. I am wondering how long does it take to master the last tune in the book? I learned it once but slow and it sounded nothing like the tune on the tape. It would be interesting to hear how long it took for anyone else to get it right. 5, 10 years?

I still can't get that sequence of descending notes in bar 12 of Governer King's March to sound like the tape either.

My favourite is probably Bonaparte's grand march

Brian

[DCrom]

I have been working through Bill Ochs book too. I am wondering how long does it take to master the last tune in the book? I learned it once but slow and it sounded nothing like the tune on the tape. It would be interesting to hear how long it took for anyone else to get it right. 5, 10 years?

I still can't get that sequence of descending notes in bar 12 of Governer King's March to sound like the tape either.

My favourite is probably Bonaparte's grand march

Brian

On my better days, I can sound very good (and sometimes up to Bill's standard) on the earlier pieces in the book. I hadn't played "The Quaker's Wife" for a long time, then tried it the other day and was surprised at how much I'd improved.

And though I thought it was *really* difficult the first time I tried it, it only took a couple of days before I was sounding pretty good on "Nora Criona" (the tune he uses to introduce rolls). Not quite up to Bill's speed, though I can sometimes make it all the way through playing along with the CD.

But though I can - just - tongue the opening arpeggio on Bonaparte's Grand March, I think that both that and the descending sequence in "Governor King's March" sound better slurred.

It comes and goes, though - some days, I sound really good. And the next day, I sound like I've got 10 thumbs and no breath control. But over time, the good days come more frequently and the bad days sound a lot better than they did.

(Been playing whistle a bit over a year now)

Dana

[RonKiley]

If the tune Danny Boy is played to is an old Irish tune called the Derry Air where did the name London Derry Air come from. Just curious.

Ron

[Bloomfield]

If the tune Danny Boy is played to is an old Irish tune called the Derry Air where did the name London Derry Air come from. Just curious.

Ron

There is a town in Northern Ireland called both Derry (by the Catholic Irish) or Londonderry (by the Protestant English/Scots). So calling it Londonderry Air or Derry Air is a bit of a political statement.

[Pat Cannady]

Once I made the mistake of calling the Derry Hornpipe by the other name within earshot of an old irish gent from Dublin. I never repeated that mistake again.

My understanding is that most everyone, nationalist or pro-union, catholic or protestant, calls the city "Derry" although its official name is still the other one and only cartographers and a few people with axes to grind call it by the other name. Quite a few of those pro-union types with axes to grind call it "Derry" anyway. Let's leave it at that, eh? I certainly don't want to instigate anything. Calling the city "Derry" does not make someone a member of a Nationalist splinter group, nor does it constitute an endorsement of any actions taken by such groups. Calling it by the other name doesn't make someone another Ian Paisley, either, although it may indicate to others a lack of sensitivity, a perfectly innocent lack of awareness about the city's sad and violent history, or a deliberate attempt to re-open old wounds. Let them heal I say, I wasn't trying to start anything.

[Tyghress]

Best reason for calling the tune Londonderry Air is that -- if you put a very brief pause between the words-- it keeps the kids from snickering, which is utterly impossible with the other name.

[RonKiley]

Thanks for the answer. I am glad to know the distinction I wouldn't want to inadvertently upset someone.. My son-in-law works for a Dublin company. He had to be taken aside when he was visiting there one time and have some history lessons from one of his co-workers. OK, for me Derry air it is.

Ron

[Dictyranger]

I have been working through Bill Ochs book too. I am wondering how long does it take to master the last tune in the book? I learned it once but slow and it sounded nothing like the tune on the tape. It would be interesting to hear how long it took for anyone else to get it right. 5, 10 years?

I still can't get that sequence of descending notes in bar 12 of Governer King's March to sound like the tape either.

Brian

I'm also a member of the Ochs Learners Brigade. Since I'm just finishing learning how to do a good tap, I've been working on The Little Fair Cannavans.

Is it just me, or does the rhythm in the recorded version of that tune change between the A part and the B? The B part has (to my ear) the swinging rhythm that I associate with a slip jig, but the A part seems to have a more "even" rhythm, like a regular jig. It's messing with my head. Has anyone else noticed this?

Dicty

[DCrom]

I'm also a member of the Ochs Learners Brigade. Since I'm just finishing learning how to do a good tap, I've been working on The Little Fair Cannavans.

Is it just me, or does the rhythm in the recorded version of that tune change between the A part and the B? The B part has (to my ear) the swinging rhythm that I associate with a slip jig, but the A part seems to have a more "even" rhythm, like a regular jig. It's messing with my head. Has anyone else noticed this?

Dicty

Hmm. You may be right. There is swing in the A part, but the way I hear it (and play it), it's most emphatic at the end of every second measure (the dotted quarter note A and G). The B part seems more traditional.

My biggest problem with The Little Fair Canavans is that I tend to speed up - and that's a tune that sounds best, to my ear, played at a moderate pace. The note that it's often used as a lullably helped me slow down - I imagine I'm rocking a baby to the beat.. Hey - it works to slow me down, and the tune does sound better that way.

Another problem was I had a really hard time making the jump to the next tune, Nora Criona - for some reason, I could play rolls in isolation just fine but in a tune I fell all over myself. So I spent some time adding simple ornamentation to tunes I already knew and working on tunes from A Dossan of Heather (the ornamentation suggested there is mostly cuts and taps). When I came back to Nora Criona something clicked and I was able to pick it up, rolls and all, easily.