Newbie alert! Have some questions...

[Janine]

Hello everyone - nice to meet you.

Long story short...I had no idea there was such a thing as a penny whistle.
As a fan of Star Trek, I of course saw the Ressikan flute but assumed it was a flute or piccolo, so I never gave it another thought.

Until....I accidentally came across Chiff and Fipple, and found these weird people who were obsessed with this *whistle* thing. I read a few posts, clicked a few links...listened to a few clips....and....now own 3 whistles, with plans to order more next week!!

The beauty of it all, is that as a kid I wanted to learn the flute and french horn, and had to settle for sax and clarinet because of my embouchure.

Now...I can learn the whistle!! (More fun than a flute, I think)

I don't have a tutorial yet, so I'm using Brother Steve's website, but have some questons.

When looking a new sheet of music, how do you tell what is a tap and what is a cut?

Fingerings.....you've got to be kidding. Is there someone in the world who can tell me what fingerings are "correct"? I have three little papers that came with the whistles, and they do NOT agree.

I can't figure out things like...if the scale on a whistle is d e #f g a b #c d, then what happens if you're playing a song with no sharps? Do you have to figure our the key of the music, and then use a different fingering chart?

(I have the feeling this is a stupid question and am gonna slap myself when I hear the answer, but at this point, I'm stumped.)

Also, do any of you play anything besides Irish music? I'm asking because at this time, Irish music does not hold a great deal of interest for me, and I'm a little nervous about having to rely solely on Irish music to learn the whistle. My impression is that there's a definite symbiotic relationship between the whistle and Irish music, and the whistle loses something in the "translation" when using it for other music. Your thoughts...?

Thank you for your help,
Janine

[antstastegood]

Welcome to the board!

A cut and a tap are usually noted in the music as a grace note. If the grace note is higher than the regular notes around it, it's a cut. Lower if it's a tap.

As for a song with no sharps, it'll be easiest to get a C whistle.

The D whistle plays in that scale you mentioned, with one addition. You can (usually) play a C natural by covering the second and third holes down. OXXOOO. So a D whistle will play in the keys of D and G major, a C whistle plays in C and F major, etc.

And I do a few things that are outside (sometimes waaay outside) of the realm of Irish Traditional. As for using the whistle for things other than Irish Trad, sometimes it works, sometimes not.

[Darwin]

Hi, and welcome. Another relative newbie here. I got my first whistle about six weeks ago. I'm up to five now, have two more on their way, and have plans for about three or four more after that.

In addition to high Ds, I am adding a mid-range A (which I already have), a C, a high E, and a G (or, maybe, both a high G and a low G). I want the other keys for playing non-Irish music with friends, and I also like the A for blues and slow airs.

I'm not interested in playing Irish music exclusively, either, though there are a lot of slow airs that I like, and a few others. I also play American, Scottish, and Chinese folk songs, a few American Old-timey and Bluegrass-style fiddle tunes, and some blues.

However, it was actually hearing slow airs on the Web, such as those played by Tony Higgins and others on Clips & Snips at http://tinwhistletunes.com/clipssnip/slowairs.html and Mick Woodruff at http://fingertrip.net/whistle/ that pushed me over the edge into whistle obsession.

I'm trying to learn proper Irish style for playing the Irish tunes, but I use mostly tonguing or glottal breaks, rather than cuts and taps, for non-Irish material. (And I don't yet play anything that really needs rolls and cranns.)

I suspect that you'll be able to use ideas from your sax and clarinet playing for non-Irish material, as I manage to transfer some sounds and approaches from guitar, which is much more foreign to the whistle than those two.

[vomitbunny]

Another newbie here. Up to 19, including 2 low d's. One good whistle and 4 cheapies still on the way. But I tend to attack new hobbies this way. And this hobby is just so handy. Order whistles for just a few bucks, (or hundreds) throw a couple in your pocket for work, play a quick tune at red lights, etc...........
To top it off, it's not impossible to learn how to make whistles with a relatively small amount of tools. And if you don't want to build, you can tweak your whistles until you either improve them, kill them, or kill them and then fix them again. I never could do any of those things with trombones and tubas.

[Bretton]

Hi Janine. If you remember your sax fingerings, just act like it's a sax without keys. The only difference (a slight one) is the fingering for c-natural which is oxx ooo (only fingers 2 and 3 down on the top hand).

d = xxx xxx
e = xxx xxo
f# = xxx xoo
g = xxx ooo
a = xxo ooo
b = xoo ooo
c# = ooo ooo
d = xxx xxx

The second octive of all the notes above is obtain by blowing a bit harder (no thumb key like on a sax).

-Brett

[trisha]

Until....I accidentally came across Chiff and Fipple, and found these weird people who were obsessed with this *whistle* thing.

We have our moments of madness around here...and sometimes whole long threads of it... :roll:

Also, do any of you play anything besides Irish music?

Yes, lots...Scottish, English, Welsh, Klezmer, Balkan, Scandinavian, Finnish, Cajun, some US styles, and some Irish (badly, but the "perfect ornament" is not my ultimate goal in whistledom ).

And if it's blues, jazz, or in keys with a few sharps and flats...then I just pick up a sax and struggle along with that instead...

Trisha, Wales

[susnfx]

Since Irish traditional music isn't usually played from sheet music, ornamentation may or may not be noted on sheet music you find for tunes. As has been said, a cut is above the note, a tap or pat is below it. However, if you're not particularly interested in ITM, I'm wondering why you're concerned with ornamentation. The tin whistle is definitely associated with ITM and hopefully as you listen to whistle recordings (almost all of it will be Irish music) you'll catch the fever!

Welcome to the board, and don't be embarrassed about questions. We've all asked them at one time or another.

Susan

[Redwolf]

One reason you'll often see fingering charts with fingerings that don't agree (or with what appears to be multiple fingerings for the same note) is that some notes can be fingered in different ways. For example, high D can be either XXX XXX or OXX XXX (the latter will make it impossible to play a low D by mistake, but there are times when all fingers down is preferable). C nat. can be OXX OOO, OXX XOX, OXX XXO or 1/2OO OOO (where all the holes are uncovered except for the top one, which is half covered), depending on the whistle. Some whistles are very tolerant of multiple fingerings for C nat., and others are very persnickity and will only take one. With each whistle, you either have to play around and see which works best or, if a fingering chart is included, go with what the chart says for that particular whistle.

Redwolf

[fancypiper]

I can't figure out things like...if the scale on a whistle is d e #f g a b #c d, then what happens if you're playing a song with no sharps? Do you have to figure our the key of the music, and then use a different fingering chart?

Leave key stuff to people that play chords and toss the charts away.

I wouldn't use any chart once I learned how the whistle in my hand responds to my breath, I would use my ears. The ear is a valuable guide (the best IMHO) to learning any music.

All whistles play the major scales "doh, re, mi, etc" notes starting at the bell note, and sarting at the note produced by lifting the bottom hand fingers, and also cross-fingering to get the "fa" note of that scale. Other modes are available and a board search for modes should turn up some interesting reading for you.

Whistles can be very individual beasts and like slightly different fingerings and breath pressures and you may have to make your own chart for your whistle if you just have to have that animal in your musical arsonal.

All you really have to do is buy a bunch of whistles in different keys and keep trying until what you want to play will work with the most comfortable fingering and whth the least half holing needed.

Also, do any of you play anything besides Irish music? I'm asking because at this time, Irish music does not hold a great deal of interest for me, and I'm a little nervous about having to rely solely on Irish music to learn the whistle. My impression is that there's a definite symbiotic relationship between the whistle and Irish music, and the whistle loses something in the "translation" when using it for other music. Your thoughts...?

You didn't mention your musical interest you were thinking of using whistle in, btw.

Well, there are a few other whistling traditions, but the largest by far is Irish/Scottish.

In my case, the desire to learn the music preceeded my ownership of a whistle.

I did have exposure to Appalachian/old time music since my childhood, so some of those tunes, I just figured out and played them as best as I could until I learned the Irish style. Now, when I play with old time musicians, I "Irishify" the tunes using cuts, rolls and variations. Opinion differs as to if it works, but IMHO, it works well.

I had one album that somebody made (name escapes me now, but the album name was "The New Pennywhistle Album", I think) that did some credible jazz and blues on Generation whistles. At least, I assume they were as the cover was a bunch of Generations.

[Bretton]

If you're interested in playing jazzy type stuff on the whistle, do a search of past discussions on "Kwela" , you'll probably like that quite a bit.

-Brett

[talasiga]

........ However, if you're not particularly interested in ITM, I'm wondering why you're concerned with ornamentation. ..........

So its ITM
and then there's the rest, is it ?



Ooooo my poor tummy

[talasiga]

......Yes, lots...Scottish, English, Welsh, Klezmer, Balkan, Scandinavian, Finnish, Cajun, some US styles, and some Irish (badly, but the "perfect ornament" is not my ultimate goal in whistledom ).

........

Janine, it needn't be Eurocentric of course.

[trisha]

[quote="talasiga]

Janine, it needn't be Eurocentric of course.
[/quote]

Agreed, there are even didges in these hills...

Trisha

[Janine]

You've all been so helpful and welcoming - thank you.

Your fingering recommendations worked...I've practiced them on each whistle (Oak, Clark, Sweetone, and......?) and they each seem to like something different.
Learning the whistle is going to be quite an adventure! I play many instruments - all classically taught. Given the whistle's individuality and this board's popular recommendation of learning by listening; to not have a piece of paper full of explicit directions right in front of me is going to be......interesting.

Gee....could that be the appeal of Irish music...the lack of formality and rigidity??

To answer Susan's question as to why I care about learning ornamentation even though I don't yet care much for ITM; because I like the ornamentation!

I don't have a favorite type of music - I like what I like. Drives people nuts when listening to the radio in the car. I can happily hop from one station to the next, from any popular or ethnic or whatever selection, as long as I like the individual song. But a whole CD of rock, or Gregorian chant, or alternative doesn't work for me....there'll only be a couple songs I like and the rest is useless.

Bretton...you play the sax too? Yeah, the fingerings are almost identical. You'd think that would be helpful. The thing is, my brain secretly switches into clarinet or bassoon fingering mode when playing the whistle. I have to stop and think..."this is A on the clarinet, this is A on the bassoon, this is A on the whistle!"

Thanks again to all of you who replied, I appreciate your help.

Janine

[fancypiper]

Given the whistle's individuality and this board's popular recommendation of learning by listening; to not have a piece of paper full of explicit directions right in front of me is going to be......interesting.

Try the uilleann bagpipes or a wooden keyless flute if you think whistles have individuality. Those have personalities and no two are alike.

The ear is an amazing learning tool and some musicians can be crippled by their crutches when they use tools other than the ear to learn music.

After all, the end result is the listening, isn't it? When I get going good on a tune, my eyes close and I could never use anything written because I can't see with my eyes closed.