Tuning and a whistle's "personality"

[Rod Sprague]

I had the experience of going into one of our local music stores (Guitar’s Friend, in Moscow Idaho), seeing one of the green-headed Generations and purchasing it out of WhAO, only to have it become my favorite whistle! I had seen people pan Generations, so I had little hope of it being a good whistle. I found the tone made me want to play it with quick, often jig type rhythms. A friend of mine picked it up and tried it and came to the same conclusion independently, herself!

I thought about this and wondered why some people would not like Generations, while others would find them so pleasantly toned. I had been making whistles of my own for a while, so I had been dealing with issues of tuning. Before I had purchased a chromatic electronic tuner, I had tuned my whistles by playing them at the same time as I played a Feadog on the same pitch. I taped over some of the holes to compensate for not having enough fingers to normally play the same note at the same time on both whistles. I would then enlarge the highest open hole on the new whistle in till the beat tones would go away, indicating the Feadog and new whistle where on the same pitch. I noted that the whistles tuned in that manner sounded different from the whistles tuned to the electronic tuner. I think this may have given me a clue as to why the Generation was panned by some and loved by others. There are different ways to tune to the same exact pitch! My Feadog seemed to be most in tone when I played all the notes at the same volume, but the notes on the Generation tended to be somewhat different in volume, but in tune when played with the same basic tone! It took different techniques to play the different kinds of whistles. I read a thesis at the U of I library on some acoustic experiments on original recorders that described what I now thought was a dumb assumption, but let me know there is a third approach to tuning. They assumed that the volume of air that would give the loudest note was the note the instrument was tuned to (they were trying to figure out how to use a controllable mechanical air source to objectively determine the intonation of recorders made back before the recent resurgence in interest).

I believe the three basic approaches to tuning are for consistent volume, consistent tone and greatest available volume. I imagine that makers balance these factors and that well tuned instruments simply reflect what sort of sound the maker had in mind. As well as explaining why people can feel so strongly either way about Generations, I think this would also explain why some fundamental notes strike people that like a strong fundamental notes as sharp if that note was tuned to be volume and or tone wise more like the rest of the notes on the instrument. Ultimately, it all comes down to personal preference.

There are probably tricks in building whistles to get the tone and volume characteristics to come closer together so the builder doesn’t have to compromise as much on the consistency of sound from note to note, for I notice my Feadog is not only consistent volume wise note to note, but also tone wise note to note. Also, the issue of “finding the perfect Generation” may boil down to the combination of the approach to intonation and the variability issues; my first generation might be hard to replace as it might be hard to find one that behaves enough like the one I now have after I have developed my playing skills around it’s unique personality. Perhaps “switch hitting” between more than one good Generation would keep that from happening.

Rod

[Jetboy]

I also have been making whistles for a time and find the same problem. A whisle of mine, tuned on a digital chromatic tuner, might be perfectly in tune with, say, my Clarke but not so with my Dixon.

As you have alluded to, the strength of the airflow over the blade will alter the tone to a lesser or greater degree. This is exacerbated by larger windways. Through experimentation, I have found that a whistle with a narrow (vertical) dimension to he windaway is more stable in tone through the register than one with a larger opening. This is because with the narrow channel one cannot blow hard without losing the note, and the the narrow windway gives a more consistent speed of airflow. The trade-off is volume of course, these tend to be relatively quiet but the intensity and purity of the note does ovecome this to a degree.

Overtons have a narrow windway and these are tonally just about perfect, and I thinks that what is lost in volume with the windway is made up for by the large(ish) bore.

[cj]

I had the experience of going into one of our local music stores (Guitar’s Friend, in Moscow Idaho), seeing one of the green-headed Generations and purchasing it out of WhAO, only to have it become my favorite whistle! I had seen people pan Generations

The reason some of us have criticized Gens is because we have several bad, out-of-tune, screechy ones lying around the house. I've got a couple of good ones now, but the not-so-nice-sounding ones outnumber them by a longshot. Some folks argue it's musician's skill (or lack thereof, more likely in my case), but I've found other whistles I like better and that are just naturally more in tune. I guess my thinking is, why suffer with an instrument I can't seem to manage and get discouraged from whistling when there are whistles out there that I can make some pretty decent music on? But everybody's different, some folks like to the challenge of tweaking, "playing them in," varying breath pressure, etc. I like to try different instruments anyway to hear their voices and discover their personalities.

Make no mistake, when a Generation is good, it's awesome. But when it's bad, it's not pretty. And Jerry Freeman's tweaked Gens are already putting some much-deserved cash in his pocket!

Just my experience, your mileage may vary, all rebates to dealer, etc. etc.

[chas]

I have a few whistles that I find are significantly out of tune when I play scales or play for a tuner. Also when I use my "standard," a Burke, and blow both simultaneously. But they're perfectly in tune when I play tunes on them. They're whistles that are good for bending notes, and since I almost always play a tune more aggressively than a scale, they sharpen significantly, especially in the upper octave.

As to the Generation question, people have personalities just as whistles do. Some people like whistles with different characteristics than Gens. I prefer a whistle with a fuller, louder, clearer sound.

[Rod Sprague]

I know that Generations have a real quality control problem; I was just using the phrase “variability issues” as a way of saying that diplomatically. Loose quality control might be a factor in why people end up with a favorite whistle; they might have stumbled onto a whistle that sounds right to them that has just the right “defects” for their taste. Or they work around minor defects of a whistle that has the proper Generation sound and end up with all sorts of subconscious bending of technique to compensate, only to find their new Generations don’t respond the same to all the subconscious reflexes developed over time working with that first Generation. Sort of a “my first car” syndrome where the car someone first learned to truly drive in is the measure of all future cars, but none seem to ever measure up.

I also don’t think I made if fully clear why Generations might seem to come across as “out of whack” to some even if it is a good Generation. The tone of a Generation only comes through on each note if the right amount of air is blown through it, but in order to blow the right amount of air, a different amount needs to be blown for each note, and each note was tuned in the design to that right amount of air, so if you blow the same amount for each note, both the tone and intonation are off. You have to bend notes a wee bit up or down, depending on the note, to keep it both on pitch and making that Generation sound.

As far as having “one favorite” whistle, I am no longer infatuated with my Generation, I tent to pick a whistle from my growing collection that seems appropriate for what I am playing at the moment. I find that also keeps me from getting into a rut, technique wise, so relatively variable (but not defective) whistles of the same model don’t seem to be too much of an issue, but good (as apposed to the many defective) Generations definitely have a place in my repertory.

Rod

[cj]

I agree with you--I don't play just one whistle, and my mood changes every day, so the whistle sound I like at the time does too. Thankfully they're mostly cheap, so I can do that (couldn't do that with say, violins!)

There are many threads on the love/hate relationship some of us have with Generations. But there are also many discussions on Clarkes, Susatos, Sweetones, and probably every other make of whistle under the sun.

One thing's for sure--it's so much fun, and this is a cool bunch of folks to discuss anything with. (OK, that's two things, but I digress . .. )

Enjoy your growing collection.

[The Weekenders]

Well, I am reading this with interest. I have just had a frustrating exchange of whistles with Mike Burke partly because of intonation and partly because of quality control/design issues.

I think that people can fall in love with a whistle without realizing that it has serious intonation problems unless they own a tuner or play in a band, both of which apply to me.

After having my headjoint come loose on my old Alpro, I returned it to Mike. The mechanical adjustment he made to the head did not work out, so I returned it. He had, on hand, the new blacktip in Aluminum so he sent me that. It was a very robust whistle, stronger than the regular Alpro, but the second octave notes were very flat compared to their first octave counterparts. Keep in mind that I am very aware of breath control and that there is always a certain allowance for "finding" the right pitch while you play. When I played this whistle for practice, it was very fulfilling. But when I got it in the band, no amount of slide adjustment would make it work with the other instruments. With unlimited budget I would have hung onto it for practice..

He sent me a replacement and its much more intune though there are tradeoffs from the previous one.

My point is that we all gush about this or that whistle and I think that the context of how we are using it may be overlooked. A few cents here or there in tuning on high notes just doesn't matter all that much when you are playing alone, but in a band it sure does. You might well remember to bring a tuner with you when you try out a new whistle to check its performance.

The bigger question to me tho, is whether we are habituated to a certain amount of intonation variance from Gens and 'dogs from the classic players. What "sounds Irish" may very well be out-of-tune on certain notes, given that equal temperament in not guaranteed in the Trad to begin with, and that the combination of a variable intonation whistle and a fretless fiddle lead to all kinds of quaint sounds.

[Cayden]

FWIW we had an alpro here for a while that previously belonged to J Madden, was passed on t osomeone in Cal who left it here [forgot to take it and said 'I'll take it home next time]in the hands of a very prominent whistler who each time she played asked me 'Peter do you think the octaves are in tune?'. Well, no.
It is dangerous though to play in front of a tuner rather than use and trust your ears. I quoted the old photographer here before who made beautiful pics, when asked what lens he used he replied the 24 mm so and so. But so and so 24 mm did very badly in all the shots of test charts and it got bad reviews, why do you use it? he was asked. I never ever photograph test charts so I have no problem, he replied.

[Ted]

My first D whistle was a Generation which was a "one-in-a-thousand". I played it for years. It was stolen some years ago and I have never found a replacement that was as great a whistle. I used to go through hundreds of them at an importer and select a few good ones out of literally hundreds, but none came close to my old favorite.

Ted

[The Weekenders]

I know that the partials thrown out by a whistle or a flute drive sound engineers crazy and that could certainly apply to a tuner as well. So I agree about that to a point, Peter. I bet a more sophisticated tuner with a great mic would reveal more. But man, when I played with the band, it was slow and painful. I couldn't find a comfort zone, as I had with my older one or with the Brass Pro, which does better there.

[Cayden]

I know what you mean Lance, whistles can be and are sometimes well out of tune [as I acknowledged above]I just meant there is a grey area as you well know where music or any art is an exact science that can be defined by tuners or testcharts and therefore they shouldn't be relied upon all the time.

[CHIFF FIPPLE]

I know what you mean Lance, whistles can be and are sometimes well out of tune [as I acknowledged above]I just meant there is a grey area as you well know where music or any art is an exact science that can be defined by tuners or testcharts and therefore they shouldn't be relied upon all the time.

Sure Peter, if we all had a standard way of tuning things would be a little better.
But maybe that might take the colour out of the instrument