Book Review: 101 Myths of the Bible

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:03 pm

Patrick , our church has a full breakfast EVERY Sunday after the service. We also have communion every Sunday.

These "coffee hour" times ARE a great time to visit with new folks and check in on old friends we haven't seen during the week. It's also a good time to get into discussions about the sermon topic.

I must say that these are not the ususal breakfasts- we always have:
biscuits, gravy, eggs, several cakes, dips and cheeses.

Now depending on who's week it is to do the cooking we will have added-
pork chop biscuits, cheese grits, TOMATO ASPIC (my favorite), various breakfast cassaroles, and MORE desserts.

The fame of some of our cooks has make the food at our church well known.

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:14 pm

When I was a kid, I attended Love Feasts at a Moravian church. I think they still have them. No orgies though.

I know I read somewhere that the early church had orgies at the agape feasts, but I can't recall the source.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:25 pm

As I said, I was told this. The person who told me this is very knowledgable, too. I don't know where he came across this idea. There's no denying those Romans were twisted! Not truly civilized in the way we are, now, snicker snicker...

Celtoid · Post by **Celtoid** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:22 am

Ridseard wrote:When I was a kid, I attended Love Feasts at a Moravian church. I think they still have them. No orgies though.

I know I read somewhere that the early church had orgies at the agape feasts, but I can't recall the source.

They had so many sexual hang-ups, they expected people to stop having sex is they could stand it. But then, they also expected the second coming to be almost right away. In Rome they really were a subversive little cult, and the Romans rightfully were worried about them. The Romans were wrong about cannibalism though, but you can see where they might have gotten the wrong impression.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:44 am

The Romans had a habit of accusing their enemies of cannabalism.

They made the same charge against the Druids.

--James

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:56 am

Ridseard wrote:I know I read somewhere that the early church had orgies at the agape feasts, but I can't recall the source.

The Epistle of Jude speaks of heretics of it. Somewhat obliquely, however.

"With their shameless carousing they are like dirty spots in your fellowship meals" Jude v 12. (Good News New Testamant) Those doing the carousing were presumably early gnostic christian sects.

The Church of the Brethren (German Baptist Brethern), the church in which I was raised, still features an agape feast with a meal of sorts. In our church the communiton bread was a kind of flat, unleavened bread which was delicious and I always wanted my grandmother, who often prepared it, to give me some before the service. There are online writings of Vernard Eller, a Brethren, who advocates this type of meal.

Steve

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:00 am

Those gnostics!

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:45 am

I've been told a lot of things by people who I thought were knowledgeable, but turned out to be wrong. Just because someone told you that Agape feasts featured more than a meal doesn't mean it was so.

I've been told some pretty interesting tales about Muslims. I have Muslim friends who make a lie of what I was told. One is an American convert, the others are actual Pakistanis who have moved to Alaska and made this their home. So, from both perspectives - a convert and a family raised in a Muslim culture - I have seen that I was given mistaken information.

I don't know how many horrible things I've been told about Catholics. I had a real prejudice against them for years, actually believing that they were not Christian because of their practices. Now, some of my very closest friends and models of Christian life are Catholic. Everything I was told was either false or twisted to the point that it did not represent reality.

So somebody told you that Agape feasts involved orgies. Did you ever bother to look for a source on that? Nowadays, I try to verify and test everything I am told, looking to see if it really is accurate.

I am pleased that so many churches do recognize the tradition as being a good thing to continue and to use for the edification of the church family. I rather wish that my own church did, as well.

-Patrick

brownja · Post by **brownja** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:16 pm

Patrick wrote: Nowadays, I try to verify and test everything I am told, looking to see if it really is accurate.
-Patrick

Except, of course, your religion.

This thread is a scream.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:21 pm

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:58 pm

Actually, browja, what makes you think I have not done exactly what I say? I can't prove God's existence to an atheist any more than he could prove God's non-existence. But, I have looked, examined, searched for my faith. I have sufficient evidence to be convinced that I am on the right track. Sometimes, that's the best anyone can do. Would it convince anyone who has made his mind up against my faith? Probably not. But I was coming from an open-minded position, not a closed-minded one.

I have been an agnostic and a pagan in my life and now I am a Christian. The previous efforts were based around serving myself, the final decision is to serve God. I am happier now than I ever was as a non-Christian, so there is after-the-fact verification for me that I am on the right path.

Really, your post was kind of rude, if you meant it the way I understood it. It also made assumptions you had inadequate evidence to make.

-Patrick

pthouron · Post by **pthouron** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 pm

Patrick wrote:I have been an agnostic and a pagan in my life and now I am a Christian. The previous efforts were based around serving myself, the final decision is to serve God. I am happier now than I ever was as a non-Christian, so there is after-the-fact verification for me that I am on the right path.Patrick

Happier now than ever would be the standard by which I'd judge, regardless of the brand of religion. If it makes you happy and a better person, I'm OK with it, even though believing in nothing is my personal flavor. Of course, as long as you don't beat me over the head with it or try to convert me.
But otherwise, Patrick, if you've achieved happiness and as a consequence are better to the people around you, I'd call that ONE of the right paths...

mjacob · Post by **mjacob** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:27 pm

Patrick, what was your motivation for deciding to serve God instead of yourself?

Celtoid · Post by **Celtoid** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:48 pm

Wow, am I ever misinformed...I din't realize that God needed to be "served". I had better get on the stick...I've been serving everyone else...my wife, my kids, my students, my country. I guess if you want to be saved it's compulsory servitude (or perhaps 'well-advised' servitude.)

I just learned that I had to "fear" God too... and all along I was thinking that love was the whole deal. Why is it always..a good 'God-fearing Christian' and not a good 'God-loving Christian'?

I'm not sure that I'm ready for fear and servitude. Good thing I don't believe in a Devil either, then i would have to add hate and loathing.

I'm dumb enough to feel that I walk in God and live in God and love in God, that all of creation is God...that the very ground of being is God. And no, I don't believe in spirits...unless of course I am convinced down the road, which is always open. My doors are open.

fancypiper · Post by **fancypiper** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:14 pm

I think Jesus explained it best.

Feed the hungry
Clothe the naked
(I am extrapolating here) Educate the ignorant
Etc.

If you do that, you are serving Jesus (thus also God).

If I remember scripture correctly. "In as much as you do it to the least of these, my brethren you do it unto me"

I would intepret "fear" as "respect" in that context. If you respect and love God, there is no need to be in the sense of the "afraid of" fear of God, unless you are under the influence of Satan.

Do you admit that there is evil and evil people in the world? I suspect the hand of Satan in the evil I have seen in my lifetime.