OT: Man in Cathedral-Sex Radio Stunt Dies

[Jack]

When I first posted this I saw myself as removed from the story and didn't really stop to think that somebody had actually died, and it's always bad when somebody dies so for that I'm sorry.

I don't, however understand how that has anything to do with religion or reality tv or morals, etc.

[pthouron]

When I first posted this I saw myself as removed from the story and didn't really stop to think that somebody had actually died, and it's always bad when somebody dies so for that I'm sorry.

I don't, however understand how that has anything to do with religion or reality tv or morals, etc.

Cran,
Even though your original post was strictly about the irony of that man dying, everybody picked up on the thing he was involved in a few months back. And that thing very much has to do with religion, reality tv and morals in general.
One of those things: you posted with one intent, and WE took it somewhere totally different.
PT

[Jack]

Oh....

[Redwolf]

When I first posted this I saw myself as removed from the story and didn't really stop to think that somebody had actually died, and it's always bad when somebody dies so for that I'm sorry.

I don't, however understand how that has anything to do with religion or reality tv or morals, etc.

That latter aspect of the thread was peripheral to your initial post. I had asked what you found funny...the fact that he'd died or the fact that he was involved in the sex stunt in the cathedral. Several other posts came off of that suggesting that what he and his partner did in the cathedral was no bad thing. The rest has stemmed from there.

I too think it's terribly sad that this man died at such a young age. Heart attacks among the young seem increasingly common, and I don't think we can blame it all on diet and lifestyle...after all, even a couple of generations ago, people routinely ate diets much higher in fat and cholesterol than is common today, and were often just as sedentery, yet a heart attack at 38 would still have been considered shocking. I remember when a dear friend of our family died from blocked arteries at the age of 50...he was physically fit, and didn't eat any differently than the rest of us in the neighborhood, yet he was dead. I'm a vegetarian (very nearly a vegan), and fairly active, but my doctor is concerned about my HDL/LDL levels. Very puzzling and, for this man and his family, very sad.

Redwolf

[Ridseard]

I still blame the mass media in large part.

So what do you propose to do about it? You don't approve of frontal nudity on TV. Others may find it completely innocuous. Does that make them wrong and you right? Anyhow, rules about what is and is not appropriate subject matter for the media cannot be enforced without invoking sanctions which amount to censorship. Is that what you want? Voluntary compliance seems unlikely in view of your comments about radio and TV being controlled by the profit motive.

[Nanohedron]

Speaking as a guy with a lowly Ba in psychology, I can say with confidence that "lewd" behavior is not a sign of mental ilness or instability in general. It can be, take someone bipolar for example, but this sort of thing is the exception. The sign of an attention-getter, perhaps. But for most, thats all. WHATS SO BAD ABOUT LIKING ATTENTION?!?!?!?

OK, I see your point.

I don't think there's anything bad about liking attention at all. I like it myself! My issue was about a matter of degree: attention-getting behaviors can be the result of a considered social approach or of the sheer perverse thrill of crapping on someone else's doorstep, as it were. I still maintain that there's something bad in that, and I think that this points to a willful state of imbalance. But that's just my opinion. It's the willfulness of that sort of thing that gets my goat. I can't count the number of people who, when taken to task for their behaviors, protested, in effect, "But I had a screwed-up childhood!". Sorry. Doesn't wash with me. As you pointed out in correcting me, these people are fully in control of their choices. My cat has better social skills.

[mjacob]

Redwolf- thats awsome that you're vegetarian. I've been veg ever since I got into healthcare. Good choice.
This is off topic, but interesting I think-
My dad has been overweight for 30 years, w/ high cholesterol tempered only w/ lipitor. In the past few years his blood sugar has been in the 130+ ml/dl range- borderline type II diabetic. He decided to try an atkins-style diet, which, a year ago, I would have absolutely been against. But, after 3 weeks on the diet, he has lost about 15 lbs, and the blood sugar is down to acceptable lvls. Also, his total cholesterol count is way down. Not what you would expect from a diet filled with dietary cholesterol and saturated fat.
Biochemically it makes some sense- with the wieght loss, when you no longer have carbohydrate as feul, your body moves into ketosis and burns fat as fuel instead. And, all that dietary cholesterol actually inhibits the production of more cholesterol by your liver. The blood sugar goes down b/c you are taking in virtually no sugars.

I'm conflicted w/ it though, cause part of me is an ethical vegetarian, but this diet looks like it will add years to his life, so that basically overrides everything else.

The thing that matters most is that ldl/hdl ratio. If the ratio is good, it doesn't matter what your ldl is, b/c the hdl takes care of it.

[Celtoid]

What is abhorent to you, do not do to someone else...everything else is commentary. Rabbi Hillel

That about says it for me.

[Sunnywindo]

Wow, there is a lot I could comment on, but for the sake of space I'll try to limit it.

Respect for others and self restraint are fundamental pillars of society.

That's pretty much the crust of it. Respect for others and self restraint are crucial to a free societies existance. It would unravel and eventually collapse without them. In a society such as the United States (for example) we have great freedom to choose. Some things people choose are against the law. Some things people choose aren't against the law, but just because they aren't against the law doesn't mean that they are a good thing. I would never want to force what I see as the right thing on everyone else, or to see the government force someone's ideal of "the right thing" on eveyone. That would be wrong as well. The freedom to make choices for ourselves, to decide what we will or will not believe, what we will or will not do... that is a very precious gift.

However, those living in such a free society must understand that there are consequences to every choice... good, bad, or otherwise. Some may cry "but who is to say what is wrong and what is right". I think consequences can speak volumes. Consequences are a natural part of life. I throw a rock up in the air, it typically falls back to the ground. I'm facing North, I turn to my right, I'm then facing east. Course, there are more serious consequences to consider.

That couple messing around in the church... well, they got caught. Apparently there is some law against doing that in a church or in a public place or something. (Otherwise they wouldn't have been scheduled to appear in court.) A consequence. But what if they had just stuck to their own home. Surely no big deal for two consenting adults to do whatever they want in private. Perhaps. Let't see....

Say, I have muliple partners... no big deal, people do it all the time. Well, it does cheapen the act I think. Also, sex isn't just a pleasure thing... it essentially is the power to create another human being. I don't think that's something to be taken lightly. So consequences? We risk pregnancy, STD's (many have no cure, some can even kill you), there are mental and emontional consequences, as well as the fall out of such behavoir can have on society. As much as we like to think we live in an isolated box, we don't. You might try to escape the consequence of pregnancy though abortion, but it's not a cut and dry way out either: again there are emotional and mental consequences, as well medical consequences... there is a risk of side effects and complications, complications which have led to death in some cases. There is also the example we set for younger generations, is yours the example you want children following or does it even matter to you?

Even if you by chance "luck out" and don't get pregnant, or catch a STD, there are still the less noticable mental and emotional consequences. Everything you do leaves it's imprint on the fibre of your being, how you look at life, how you relate to others, how you feel about yourself. Sometimes not visable to others, perhaps not even recognized by you, but it is there and it makes an impact.

So consequences of abstaining from such behavoir? I might get made fun of, might not be accepted with the "popular crowd". There are good conseqences. Such as I won't have to worry about getting pregnant before I am ready to take on that responsibilty. Personally, I'd rather be made fun of than risk living with an STD for years to come.

Making wise choices can help open up more choices down the road. Making unwise choices can narrow your choices for the future. A person who is dying of AIDS caught though careless drug use or sex doesn't have many choices left. They chose themselves right out of existance.

A society which becomes more permissive, more concerned more about their own selves, the pleasures of the moment, throwing aside all restraint, ignoring the risks... still has to face the conseqences. We are facing those consequences in higher rates of crime, STDs, teenage pregnacy, abortion, suicide, depression, debt, bankruptcy, drug addiction, divorce, abuse, poverty, children in foster care, etc.. Yes, there are always going to be those who do those things anyway, but that doesn't mean that a society should let the pendulum swing so far as to make such things common, mainstream, no big deal.

A society that chooses to toss aside basic respect for others and self restraint will cease to function effectively, and will eventually collapse. A free for all, over sexualized, profanity embracing society isn't exactly kid friendly either. I feel sad for the kids coming along, so many having their innocence, their pure joy of just being a child, robbed from them at an ever earlier age.

It should be the choice of the people within a society what path they take. If a society at large chooses to cut off it's nose to spite it's face... if they choose things that harm, corrupt, destroy... that's its choice. But how much better this world would be if instead society chose to be kind, to be honest, to hold to those two pillars of respect for others and self restraint. The world could be a much more peaceful, wonderful place... but it will only work if the people were to choose it of their own free will. Not likely to happen I know, but I can dream anyhow.

:roll: Sara (who believe it or not left out a lot she thought about saying but didn't say)

[Redwolf]

Redwolf- thats awsome that you're vegetarian. I've been veg ever since I got into healthcare. Good choice.
This is off topic, but interesting I think-
My dad has been overweight for 30 years, w/ high cholesterol tempered only w/ lipitor. In the past few years his blood sugar has been in the 130+ ml/dl range- borderline type II diabetic. He decided to try an atkins-style diet, which, a year ago, I would have absolutely been against. But, after 3 weeks on the diet, he has lost about 15 lbs, and the blood sugar is down to acceptable lvls. Also, his total cholesterol count is way down. Not what you would expect from a diet filled with dietary cholesterol and saturated fat.
Biochemically it makes some sense- with the wieght loss, when you no longer have carbohydrate as feul, your body moves into ketosis and burns fat as fuel instead. And, all that dietary cholesterol actually inhibits the production of more cholesterol by your liver. The blood sugar goes down b/c you are taking in virtually no sugars.

I'm conflicted w/ it though, cause part of me is an ethical vegetarian, but this diet looks like it will add years to his life, so that basically overrides everything else.

The thing that matters most is that ldl/hdl ratio. If the ratio is good, it doesn't matter what your ldl is, b/c the hdl takes care of it.

Diet and health is a purely frustrating issue for me. I've been a vegetarian for 15 years, and for much of that have been nearly vegan. I've also always been physically active. After my daughter was born 10 years ago, however, my body went haywire. Now, if I exercise like a demon and eat next to nothing, I can MAINTAIN my weight, but I cannot lose. If I don't work out at least 45 minutes per day and keep my dietary intake to less than 1500 kcals, I gain. To make matters worse, my triglycerides, which were always in the low-normal range, went up and stayed up and, at my last physical, my HDL/LDL ratios were offset enough that my doctor wants me on medication. I'm 42, and doing it all RIGHT, doggone it, but I'm still toddling steadily toward diabetes (which runs in the family) and heart disease.

The most frustrating doctor's visit I ever had was four years ago. I'd gained weight (again!) and the doctor gave me his usual lecture. At the time, I was working out daily at the Y, 45 minutes to an hour each day intense aerobics on the Stairmaster, alternating every other day with weight training...AND I was still faithfully doing my karate katas, even though I'd had to give up regular karate training due to finances. I was living on a vegan, whole foods diet, consuming about 1000 calories per day (yes, I kept strict track). After the doctor had finished lecturing me, he gave me a handout that told me to cut down on red meat (red meat? I hadn't eaten ANY meat in 11 years!) and to walk for at least 30 minutes four times a week. I burst into tears...he hadn't listened to a thing I'd told him and, when I tried once again to explain my dietary and exercise regimen, he shrugged and said I was "obviously" eating more and exercising less than I thought I was! That's why I'm so quick to jump on other vegetarians when they are quick to blame someone's heart attack or stroke on his or her diet...there's clearly a lot more at work than most of us realize.

I could never do Atkins. Aside from the ethical issues (not to mention the disgust issues...when you haven't consumed animal flesh for 15 years, the idea of doing so is distinctly unappealing!), I've BEEN ketonic, and I'm not willing to subject myself to that again. Glad it worked for your dad, though.

Redwolf

[Jack]

Redwolf, have you ever considered fasting? There are fasts for all types of conditions, including Diabetes.

Fasting (properly) helps you loose weight, gives you more energy (contrary to popular belief, only the first 3 days are hard, after that you don't crave food at all), and it even helps you think clearer.

Look into it.

[pthouron]

My basic issue is: what do we call a society (ours) which is allegedly ruled by puritanical principles but condones what are basically wrong things for the purpose of entertainment.
For example, American TV (except for cable) is restricted in the areas of language and sex (but not violence), I am assuming because somebody in charge (moral majority?) decided these things are inappropriate. However, in the reality show "Joe Millionaire" (to name one), the protagonists lies to 20 women about who and what he is, and at the end, he not only gets the girl but also a million bucks. How's that for inappropriate? What does that tell my kid? I already have to explain to him why the leaders of Enron, MCI, CitiGroup, etc... walk free, but with this one, I have to admit I'm stumped.
The answer has to be, you guessed it, money. As long as it makes money, it's OK. We are possibly the most puritanical society with regards to all things sexual, yet we're the world's top market for ρσяиσפядρђψ. Not surprising, if you know that the two companies that profit the most from the sale of ρσяиσפядρђψ are... AT&T and General Motors. Don't worry, they're many times removed from the smut peddlers, but they're the ones who are profiting.
So, basically, that's the lesson for our kids: your leaders, churches, schools and Congressman may tell you certain things are wrong, but if you can make them a buck out of it, you'll be fine.

Yeeeeech!!!

[U2]

When I first posted this I saw myself as removed from the story and didn't really stop to think . . .

It isn't a big deal, but I attempted to find out what you thought was funny but received no response. Seemed like the door was left wide open with full knowledge since no response was offered.

[Redwolf]

Redwolf, have you ever considered fasting? There are fasts for all types of conditions, including Diabetes.

Fasting (properly) helps you loose weight, gives you more energy (contrary to popular belief, only the first 3 days are hard, after that you don't crave food at all), and it even helps you think clearer.

Look into it.

I fasted for 40 days once, during Lent. Didn't lose an ounce.

Redwolf

[mjacob]

I fasted for 40 days once, during Lent. Didn't lose an ounce.

-wowzers.

Redwolf-
That is seriously frustrating. It sounds like you're doing everything right. One thing to consider might be an increase in dietary fiber. This should help the blood sugar stabilize, at least in theory. Also, jujitsu is way cooler, superior to karate in my opinion But that's not much help.
Another thing- get a second opinion! Have your thyroid function checked.

Vegsource.com usually has an article dealing with an issue like this, and might give you some ideas.