Dale's Whistle Maker rules were detrimental to the site.

pthouron · Post by **pthouron** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:21 am

If it weren't for (tasteful and reasonable) commercial posts, how would we, whistlers, find out about new products and makers, I wonder? It's not like there is a nationally published magazine, or TV advertising on the subject. If you're into rock'n'roll, there is no dirth of information about instruments. If you're into "our kind" of music, you basically rely on word of mouth and the C&F Board.
I think some of the "purists" and board police should take a Xanax and skip these posts if they find them offensive. I also think that Dale provides clear guidelines that should be easy to follow.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:35 am

What a storm in a teacup. Sheesh. I have never had a problem with ANY whistle makers posting or advertising on this board. It is one of the reasons I am a member.
From what I've seen in the few months I've been lurking in C&F there are many more totally non-whistle related postings than postings from whistle makers yet I see no firestorm of protest on that!

By the way I guess I should intro myself - my name's Colin, a native of Edinburgh and a 23 year resident of Madison. This board has reawakened a long time (but dormant) interest in the whistle. I want to thank all those who have contributed so much in the past few months to my knowledge of whistles and whistle playing. What an incredible resource this board is.

Cheers, Colin

Davey · Post by **Davey** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:45 am

..wowsers..this is getting to be a big topic.

I find it ironic that a group that tends to fixate on the shopping for, tweaking of, manufacture of/acquisition of an instrument would actually COMPLAIN about a maker occasionally posting an advertisement.

For the record, I've no problems with the policy, and myself have only posted twice re: my whistles......I try to keep a low profile...more relaxing that way!

"if you build it, they will come."
www.greenwoodpipes.com

how's that?

Mack.Hoover · Post by **Mack.Hoover** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:08 am

brewerpaul wrote:
avanutria wrote:
brewerpaul wrote:Now, what am I going to do with all those steak knives?
You could start a combination juggling school and medical center...
Say, juggling IS one of my hobbies.... or maybe we could use them for that human sacrifice..

Another reason not to be the sacrificial offering...

Two days to O.U. and counting.

Mack

Jetboy · Post by **Jetboy** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:10 am

As a fledgling manufacturer I am naturally keen to promote my craft in any possible way. Nevertheless,I do agree with the policy of restricting overt commercial exploitation of the Forum.

However, consider this; if it was not for people like me bringing new whistles to the attention of all you players out there, there would be no progress and we would all be playing instruments from the big and well known manufacturers.

As a corespondant pointed out, none of us little fish will ever get rich practicing our craft, we just want to share our love of the instrument with a wider audience.

Simon Styles
Weston Whistles UK
aka Jetboy.

cj · Post by cj » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:10 am

I know others have suggested this, but maybe we should have a new part of the forum dedicated to just ads, sales, makers, etc. Mandolin Cafe has such a thing, and it seems to work well. This way, if folks don't want to read it, they can stay off that part of it.

Roger O'Keeffe · Post by **Roger O'Keeffe** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:29 am

As far as I (a relative newbie) know, part of the problem is the terms on which Rich is able to use the server which hosts the forum. As long as the "commercial" content is incidental to the main content, Dale's compromise arrangement is acceptable to the server owner, but an explicit commercial corner might be problematic.

Serp didn't come to the board as a fully-fledged maker, and if he hadn't been wearing a particularly thick pair of asbestos pants at the time, he might never have become one. But by the same token, if people hadn't advised him what needed improving, he might still be turning out whistles which many people here would regard as sub-standard. The symbiosis between prospective maker and experienced musicians worked well.

It may be that one or two people in the past were over-zealous in advertising their wares here, but what we have now works well. If people are temperate in how they describe instrument makers and sellers and their wares, their opinions are valuable. I certainly appreciated the steer that I got when I first decided to invest in a low whistle.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:46 am

Mack.Hoover wrote:Two days to O.U. and counting.

O.U., you say?

I know, I have my opposition to the glorification of the historical criminals called the Sooners, but the University of Oklahoma does have one of the finest football teams in America.

Boomer Sooner, Boomer Sooner,
Boomer Sooner, Boomer Sooner,
Boomer Sooner, Boomer Sooner,
Boomer Sooner, O-K-U!

Oklahoma, Oklahoma,
Oklahoma, Oklahoma,
Oklahoma, Oklahoma,
Oklahoma, O-K-U!

I'm a Sooner born
And a Sooner bred,
And when I die
I'll be Sooner dead.

Rah, Oklahoma! Rah, Oklahoma!
Rah, Oklahoma! O-K-U!

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:50 am

I would love to have a sort of "semi-private room" where I could share with my fellow whistlesmiths, tell C&F users about my work, answer and ask questions specifically related to my whistles in the hands of the users, and announce new developments any old time.

I'd like to continue the "no overt advertising" policy, but be able to say "hey, I made something spiffy and you should come see it" when it happens, instead of having to wait for my monthly announcement post, and I know, I know, I didn't wait - I'd just like to see it be "legal".

Dale has a pretty comprehensive list of makers here, but not all of us are represented. I'm not, because my whistles have been in flux as far as design, until fairly recently. I'll be submitting to that list this week, but I'd really like a more immediate resource to use when things change.

Most of the makers here aren't nearly as vocal as I, and I've read some of their reasons, and I think that we should have at least the ability to put up a post saying something like "XYZ Whistle Company is having a sale this month. Click the WWW link to come see." or "QRP Whistles is announcing a new model of whistle. Click the WWW link to come see." any time it happens. I guess we'd have to be accredited with some modicum of common sense, and it would have to be assumed that we wouldn't abuse it by posting every day of the month, but if you look at the history of commercial postings, I think we probably would honor a "common sense" request to keep it to reasonable usage.

What triggered these threads, was my being all excited and jumping up and down about my new little whistles that I think are pretty and neat, and a development on another line that I thought was cool. So I posted a couple of threads on them, and answered questions in those threads. I'll talk about them in my monthly announce, so I'm not giving details here, but hey, what you may not understand, due to my getting all frothy, is that I actually agree with the policy on commercial posts, in general, and being a Reasonable Person, (thanks, Walden), try to just be factual when I do post something about my work. My enthusiasm just kind of boiled over this time.

Had I just made some small change to the Viper line, say, I would not have posted it until my October announcement.

Okay, I've banged on enough about this. The nutshell version is that I don't think the rules of the board are too restrictive, but I would like to see them amended slightly to explicitly allow for an occasional pointer to the makers' sites when something new is announced there. Does that sound fair enough?

Thanks for listening!

serpent

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:17 am

I would love to see a section of C&F wherein we could check for makers newest additions, changes, announcements, sales, etc. However, Rich and Dale have I believe worked hard to start up and maintain this wonderful site that has grown geometrically over the years and includes more and more types of info and substance. Who would maintain and update such a new section of the site? How much work is it really and would anyone want to actually do it? Is it ok with Dale/Rich? Does that type of approach fit in with their concept for this Board? I don't have these answers...

One last question. Is it really so hard for the makers to have an e-mailing list on their own sites? Does this not then get to enough new users? And if that's the point then I guess putting a subsite on this Board really violates Dale/Rich's espoused concept for the Board. Now that I've confused even myself, some other more articulate members, perhaps even Dale, could address this better. ANd now that I think of it, we already have such a place on this web site; but apparently it's not kept up to date which might be a hint that it's indeed too much of an added burden for us to ask for...

Regards,

Philo

CHIFF FIPPLE · Post by **CHIFF FIPPLE** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:44 am

pthouron wrote:If it weren't for (tasteful and reasonable) commercial posts, how would we, whistlers, find out about new products and makers, I wonder? It's not like there is a nationally published magazine, or TV advertising on the subject. If you're into rock'n'roll, there is no dirth of information about instruments. If you're into "our kind" of music, you basically rely on word of mouth and the C&F Board.
I think some of the "purists" and board police should take a Xanax and skip these posts if they find them offensive. I also think that Dale provides clear guidelines that should be easy to follow.

What he said

but what's a Xanax is it a new whistle I haven't heard of

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:49 am

I think its one of those drugs you take to accept the lowering of nearly every standard of quality of modern life while still buying and consuming lotsa stuff. But donnnn't get me started.....

Four out of five docs would probably put me on the stuff so I wouldn't be so

angry!!!!

DCrom · Post by **DCrom** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:03 am

The Weekenders wrote:I think its one of those drugs you take to accept the lowering of nearly every standard of quality of modern life while still buying and consuming lotsa stuff. But donnnn't get me started.....

Four out of five docs would probably put me on the stuff so I wouldn't be so angry!!!!

Nah, Weeks - Xanax is just poor and pale substitute for the those without the stomach or taste for Whisky (or Whiskey).

By your own admission, you're already getting sufficient doses of the Good Stuff on a regular basis

More on-topic - whoooo boy. Went away for the weekend (not the Weekenders) and came back to the most low-key (mostly) excuse for a flame war I've ever seen. Glad to see that those most directly involved (Dale and Bill) are level-headed folks.

For the record - I like the board about like it is. Wouldn't mind a bit more commercial posts by more-or-less established members, but since keeping it to a low level helps Dale and Rich keep the forum going I'm certainly not going to joggle their elbows. And I don't think anyone in this tempest-in-a-teacup was acting with malice.

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:42 pm

Dr. prescribed 18-year-old McCallan is also wonderful for whatever ails ya...

Philo

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:52 pm

Good points all around, I think. I haven't had a problem with makers' notices, myself; as long as the guidelines are observed, it's all part of the special mix that makes up this site. My own impression is that the initial post was just a parting shot due to a case of sour grapes. Or not. It was worth discussing, though.

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Dale's Whistle Maker rules were detrimental to the site.

Sheesh....

Another 2p from serpent