Why are "Native American Flutes" so expensive?

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:11 pm

Tyghress

That's nice - I guess. I wonder if I'm the only one who's noticed which end of the horse you blow into?

kevin m. · Post by **kevin m.** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:59 pm

I feel slightly ashamed to report that when I saw the first photo,the first thing I thought of was the 'Toys 'R' Us' Giraffe!

I'm sure it's a wonderful instrument,Tyghress!

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 3:08 pm

NA flutes expensive? not if you consider the worksmanship...

Bleah! here's one, a BaraGain! at $ 350! Don't mind the weight of beads or feathers, this is trimmed with real high-grade, genuine, "Spirit of the Succerz" masking tape--the very brand that ancient NA shamans use to make ceremony masks of! At this price, the canestock is thrown in!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=10183

(seriously, I thought such swindles came only from Central Africa...)

ihc_ssii · Post by **ihc_ssii** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 3:48 pm

I picked up a NA flute for about $40

......figured since I'm part Cherokee and part Choctaw, it would be a neat thing to learn.

It's a nice-looking flute, but it doesn't have the range of my Feadog, which I picked up for about $6

........

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:25 pm

ihc_ssii wrote:I picked up a NA flute for about $40 ......figured since I'm part Cherokee and part Choctaw, it would be a neat thing to learn. It's a nice-looking flute, but it doesn't have the range of my Feadog, which I picked up for about $6 ........

So the price of tradition around your way is $34 dollars and a bit of range. Sounds pretty cheap to me.

Easily_Deluded_Fool · Post by **Easily_Deluded_Fool** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:30 am

I made a pvc NAF and decided to make a wooden one

Instructions from
http://www.nativeaccess.com/ancestral/flutes-1.html

I used the 'love flute/flageolet' instructions on the right of the page.
I used a piece of floor board to make the final flute,
having destroyed a piece of ash ( might use it for a shorter flute) grown in my garden.

So the second attempt took a total of 16 hours.
I used hand tools, using a round chisel to remove the wood
to make the bore, and chamber.
After it was glued - as a square(ish) block, and then shaped using a plane,
then sanded, then the sound holes drilled, I used beeswax to finish it.
Two hours of polishing!
I could have used varnish, but I'm giving it to a friend who likes as little as
possible to do with chemicals etc, so wouldn't like a painted/varnish finish.
The bird was made from the same board, the tie made from plaited cotton threads of different colours.
Bell note of F#, and holes drilled for pentatonic A.
My friend can't play a flute, so the pent' scale means that any noise sounds good

<img src="http://f3.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kMVqP2O6Ic ... w/NAF1.jpg" border="0" />

<img src="http://f2.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kMVqP-9bWj ... Q/NAF2.jpg" border="0" />

So, I'm no expert, but the pcv flute took about 30 minutes, the wooden
one the whole of a long day.
(Looking around the 'net at various forums, using routers, 'they' make a flute in a morning.)

So I guess that the effort put into a Native American Flute makes the cost appropriate.

"If yer like it,and can afford it - buy it" is my motto, 'cos at the end of the day it is your decision

p.s. If yer can't buy it - make it

Tak_the_whistler · Post by **Tak_the_whistler** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:47 am

>Chuck_Clark, ordered one of those Flute Kits already? It does look like ordinary $20 plastic model but the striking difference is that you can in fact play some real music with these things!! I'd order just a Kit...I don't think $5 difference would hurt that much.

>Tyghress, the flute!!

Cool sculpture/instrument. Reminded me of Shrek, sort of (uh...different animal? :p)) Kinda big, is it heavy for a flute (Native American Flute, I mean)?

NancyF · Post by **NancyF** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:36 am

My nice flutes were in the $75 to $125 range, but I'm commuting up to Winfield this week and there is a guy with some very nice real (not toy or decorative) flutes for $100-$300 (his hardwood flutes are the upper end of this). I'm considering getting one. These are in recognizable keys by the way.

www.sampsonwoodlandflutes.com but Rick Sampson said his website was a bit out of date.

NancyF

livethe question · Post by **livethe question** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:01 pm

I bought one of the plastic NA flutes (Amon Olorin Flutes) from a board member to see if I wanted to invest money in a nice wooden flute. After two or three weeks I decided that I definetly wanted to continue. If anyone wants to give a try, I'll sell the plastic set for $40 + $5 shipping. They are in Gminor and F#minor. Here's the website that tells about them http://www.aoflutes.com/pf.htm

They have a good sound and give you the feel for the NA flute. Of course they don't have the depth of a good wood flute but for learning, camping etc they can't be beat.

BTW I'm now playing a flute from Colin Peterson of Omaha, Nebraska. He was a machinist before building flutes and brings that attention to detail to his work. A musician in the area who has played all kinds of NA flutes tells me that none are better. Colin's site is:
http://www.woodlandvoices.com/

If interested in the plastic NA flutes let me know at my email or through PM.

jim

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:47 am

kevin m. wrote:
Chuck_Clark wrote: So WHY are they so costly? Are "Native American Flute" players just suckers?
It's payback time for 500 years of being dispossessed and downtrodden,and 100 years of being misrepresented in Hollywood films!
Any one have the sheetmusic for 'Dances with Wolves'?

(Kevin heads for the hills-pursued by a lynch mob).

That would be the Indian Gaming industry.

Royce

vaporlock · Post by **vaporlock** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:13 pm

I haven't been posting here much lately 'cause I've been off building NA flutes. I've probably made 30-40 of them in the key range of low Dm to high C#m. It's been a great amount of fun and a wonderful learning experience. I sell them for between $85 and $125 depending on the woods used. Here's a shot of three of my more recent flutes before the addition of decorations like feathers and such (popular with the Starbucks crowd

).

From top to bottom: Am in Cherry and Walnut, Gm in Cherry and Walnut and F#m in Canarywood and Walnut.

I search for the best wood I can find to make these things. Sometimes I'll only get 1 or 2 flutes out of a $30 piece of wood.

Then I prepare the blanks using a radial arm saw ($500 ), a jointer ($350)and a planer ($350). Must keep them sharp to do a good job...replacement blades for the jointer and planer are about $40 a crack.

Then using a router table ($350) I rout the bore and slow air chamber. Man, router bits are expensive...$18-$85 depending on the bore size. I still haven't found anyplace that will resharpen them and even the carbide ones need replacement every now and again.

Then the sound hole is created using needle files ($12)

Then they are glued and clamped (cheap) and routed again to rough shape (more router bits).

The bores are then sealed with tung oil.

Then the bird (fetish, thingy on top) is routed and carved and sanded. Sometimes this takes almost as long as the flute to make.

Trial by fire...the test playing, tweaking, playing, tweaking, tuning, tweaking. I call it the trial by fire because if the flute doesn't turn out to my liking it goes into the fireplace and then it's back to step 1 again.

Then they are shaped some more on a belt sander ($129) and then finish sanded by hand with varying degrees of fine grit sandpaper.

They are finished with 3-4 coats of hand rubbed tung oil. A tremendous pain in the butt, requiring 24 hours to dry between coats.

I've broken it down and, charging $85 to $125 per flute, I make about $15 an hour after expenses (NOT including initial investment on tools, just the upkeep). Not too bad for a hobby, but not a great amount of money to live on.

Why don't I charge $300?? 'cause my flutes aren't THAT special! Some of those $300 flutes on ebay are made from difficult to machine woods that have to be worked by hand. Some that I've seen are made from insanely expensive, yet beautiful woods. Some of them are just a plain, good old-fashioned rip-off.

I apologize...once again I'm late to topic and rambling in my response, but that's okay...'cause I've been busy in the shop making sawdust and MUSIC!!!

Cheers,
Eric

PS
I just spent yesturday getting my new metal lathe/mill set up in the shop. Now it's time to start making pipes and maybe a whistle or two!!!

Celtoid · Post by **Celtoid** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:02 pm

I saw some really beautiful, and very expensive native American whistes at the Far Look Lodge at Mesa Verde this summer. I played a couple to hear the sound and they were pleasant sounding but not instruments you would want to play with any speed. They looked more like objects of art than real instruments but perhaps they were both. sure, I wanted one really bad (WHOA) but my budget would have collapsed immediately.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:20 am

These flutes are superb.
Did you ever make a drone?

Eric, I sent you a PM...

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:43 am

Quote @ vaporlock

I've broken it down and, charging $85 to $125 per flute, I make about $15 an hour after expenses (NOT including initial investment on tools, just the upkeep). Not too bad for a hobby, but not a great amount of money to live on.

Nobody in my family has ever made $15 an hour doing anything. Mabey we should all start making NA flutes....

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 4:47 am

Celtoid wrote:I saw some really beautiful, and very expensive native American whistes at the Far Look Lodge at Mesa Verde this summer. I played a couple to hear the sound and they were pleasant sounding but not instruments you would want to play with any speed. They looked more like objects of art than real instruments but perhaps they were both. sure, I wanted one really bad (WHOA) but my budget would have collapsed immediately.

I'm in the UK, and we just don't have anything like the NAF over here at all. So I bought mine from: http://www.arizonaflutes.com/

for a mere $45 (by JT Thompson). At the same time, I ordered an Acoustica D flute from a mail-order place in the north of England. It took 5 days for the NAF flute to get to me from Arizona. 2 weeks for the Acoustica to travel a hundred and fifty miles...

The NAF flute sounds great...very 'woody' and breathy, and above all, quiet (no complaints from the neighbours yet).

The Acoustica sounds like a piece of electrical cable conduit with a cork stuck in one end. And no-one told me I'd need hands like King Kong to finger the thing...sigh. :roll:

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Why are "Native American Flutes" so expensive?

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