OT: A genuine whistle question

[ScottStewart]

OK, so the OT connotation is a little jesting, but I figured this thread has nothing to do with politics, so it might be a little off topic as of lately. Anyhow, I've been around the board for a few years and a few of its incarnations and I've found that it's rare to find a whistlemaker that does all keys well. In my search and trades to find the best in each key I've ended up with a mishmash of different whistles by different makers. My impressions is that nearly everyone else has the same experience. So, is there a maker that does all keys well? Some would say Copeland, I would differ. I probably would say Burke, but others would differ. I guess I'm saying I've not met anyone who plays all brand A or all brand B. It seems that even the top makers have a key or two that are not up to the quality of the whistles they are known for. I've heard folks say they love O'Riordans high whistles, but not the low ones. Then I've read where folks love low Overtons but are undecided on the high ones. My favorites are my Burke D and C in brass, and my Eyer G (I hear John Eyer is no longer making whistles, sadly). I had planned to buy more Eyers based on the G I own.
So, what does everyone think? Is there a well-made, consistent brand of whistle that can be counted as good or very good in any/every key?

[peteinmn]

A very interesting question. As a "no longer quite a newbie" I am interested in beginning to aquire whistles in more keys than I curently own. I have been reluctant to do so because I really would like to have a primary supplier of whistles that share the same basics. Is there one brand of whistle in which you can own a range of keys and play them all the same?

[Jack]

Generation.

[jim stone]

A problem is that a design that shines (or sings)
in one key
may sound less good in another. If I may express
a very personal opinion, the Sindt
D is lovely; the A and Bb less so.
As most makers
have one basic design that they repeat
in different keys, some keys will be
less good. Also the voicing on particular
whistles by the same maker in even one key differs on
many handmade whistles. If you
buy five Acme Ds, say, maybe one won't
be so good, so if you buy five Acmes
of different keys, maybe one won't
be so good.

[chas]

I would tend to concur with you, Scott, on Mike Burke. Of course, his whistles are not to everybody's taste, but I have his whistles in 7 keys, and the C is the only one I'm not crazy about -- I know there are others who disagree with me on his C, though.

I also agree with you on Copeland, although I only have two of his whistles (D and low-D). The low-D is simply breathtaking, while the D is okay.

I would add Glenn Schultz's wooden whistles. His PVC whistles are mighty fine, although I think there are a couple of weak keys -- C, F, possibly Eflat. But his Thin Weasel keys each have a different bore diameter, so each one is really its own whistle. I have E, D, C, and Bflat, and each is remarkable and totally different from the rest.

Some of the other wood makers also have different bores for each key -- Jon Swayne comes to mind; I think Phil Bleazey does, too. I can definitely say that Swayne's D and C are two totally different whistles, both with their merits.

[Blackbeer]

Ya know that is realy a loaded question Scott. There are as many varried tastes in whistles as there are makers. Maybe more. Cranberry mentioned Generations, maybe tounge in cheek, but I realy like the sound of them. I like the Syn D/Eb combo a lot and my Parkhurst Eb is just about the finest Eb I have ever played. I don`t have much use for pure or sweet whistles. I do like them in tune and it is pretty easy to tweek the Gens into tune. I haven`t played a bad Hoover and his cpvc whistles are great. Heck I like Shaws and Clarks too. I have never tried a Feadog so I need to get my hands on one of them, but I have gotten rid of most of my high end whistles. They were just too good for me. I`m just a cheep whistle kinda guy. Now flutes............................................

Tom

[IDAwHOa]

Generation.

Man, you beat me to it!

[lixnaw]

i only play burke whistles. i love the sound of the brass and composites.
i have the high D brass pro session, low G composite and the low D EZ composite. i ordered a high D cmposite session, and that'll be the last whistle i'm buying. no more WHOA for me. mike's improving his whistles all the time, he improves every key. but i don't bother buying any other keys. i have some very cheap bamboos (wich i tuned myself) and gens, to help me find out in wich key a tune is in. i don't worry about buying whistles any more, i just concentrate on collecting music, playing and singing.

[Wombat]

Well there are three problems answering this question. The first is that some makers do everything whilst others make only a few. Probably harder for the former to be consistent although I'm not sure the facts bear this out. More troublesome is that few of us have played each whistle in each available key. The third problem is that we often use the reports of others rather than personal experience to decide whether our duds are due to key or variation in quality of output across the whole range. For example, a lot of people will say that Copeland low D, G and A whistles are special. But the problems Copelands are prone to—sudden leap in volume and intonation problems at the high B note—have been sighted in each of the 'good' keys as well as others. But my Copeland low D has no such problems.

That said, Burkes are fantastically consistent, as are Overtons. (BTW, anyone tried a Burke in Ab, Db or F#?) Those who don't like high Overtons are stating a preference for a different sounding high whistle I think, they are not denying that you get good intonation, playability and the trademark Overton sound. I have nine Bernard-made Overtons from high Eb to low D. I love all of them.

[chas]

Good points, Wombat. I might also add (possibly just paraphrasing some of your points) that what one might consider a desirable sound in one key might be undesirable in another key. And I think that the more consistent makers recognize this. Burkes are generally considered pure of sound, but I find a pleasant amount of chiff in his lower whistles. They're still purer than Overtons, but I find they have that characteristic low-whistle sound. Likewise, C and D Overtons sound to me a lot purer than the low whistles. The Copeland high-D is extremely chiffy, but the low-D to my ears is not, although it has that wonderful complex sound.

As an aside, I have Harpers in D, C, A, and low-G. The D and C are pretty pure sounding, but the G and A are wonderfully chiffy. And, for some bizarre reason, I have a lot more problem with the low whistles clogging than the highs. Maybe the big mouthpiece just needs more warming up than I have patience for.

[gwenhyfar]

I have a few whistles, not an obscene amount by any standards, but enough to keep a normal person going for a while (not me, though). I have a Clark Meg (in D), a nameless, faceless, two-dollar thing that I got before I knew what a tin whistle was (also in D, more or less), a Tony Dixon (in Low D), and a Generation (High G) which I got less than three hours ago. So far as I can tell, the only readily available and cheap whistle manufacturer that makes a lot of different keys are the generations, and we all know what *they* can be like. I think I'm going to have to do some tweaking on my new Generation - it sounds okay but the transition to the higher octaves takes some force. Or maybe that's just because it's such an incredibly high-pitched freakin' whistle. I sat down in the living room and played it a few minutes ago, and I have never seen my cat sprint away quite that quickly.

But I digress.

Probably because I don't have anything else to say, really.

Yeah...

-Gwenhyfar

[Jack]

Quote @ gwenhyfar

So far as I can tell, the only readily available and cheap whistle manufacturer that makes a lot of different keys are the generations, and we all know what *they* can be like.

Susato comes in a range of keys, from soprano G (I think) to low D... About as available as Generation, just a couple dollars more. Very consistant, though some people don't like the tone.

[Rod Sprague]

Making a family of consistent sounding whistles in all the keys is completely within reason. Organ makers learned to make consistent sounding sets of pipes empirically then speeded up the refining of the process using physics and psychoacoustics. Scaling up pipes from one pitch to the next is not a simple linear increase in size; there are subtle changes in geometry to keep the apparent loudness the same and gradually change the harmonics as somewhat different emphases on the harmonics in different parts of the range actually make them sound better to the ear. The same rules would apply to whistles.
One issue to deal with in making whistles sound better within each key is that the bore diameter and fipple structure will have to fall within the right part of the geometric progression for that key. With cylindrical bore instruments, there is the issue of mass produced tubing only coming in sets of standardized sizes, so they might need to go to custom tubes for each key. Also, each key would need its own well-designed fipple to keep the tone quality consistant. I'd be glad to do it if only I had the resources.
Rod