Lord MacDonald Eat your Heart out! Are UPers' in danger?

Mypipes · Post by **Mypipes** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 3:49 pm

From the Yahoo UK News

Monday August 25, 03:00 AM

Bagpipes hit sour note for hearing

FOR many a Scots regiment, the Highland bagpipe was as potent in the advance
toward battle as artillery and rifles.

But a survey conducted by Piper & Drummer magazine has revealed the
resonating force of the pipes can damage more than the morale of enemy
troops.

Half of those surveyed reported hearing loss and repetitive strain injuries
after years of playing.

Some 10 per cent also reported that their passion for the pipes had led to
the break-up of marriages, while 84 per cent claimed to know pipe-band
members who are alcoholics.

The news comes just a week after 7,000 bandsmen and women descended on
Glasgow Green to take part in the World Pipe Band Championship.

James Bousquet, an acoustics expert and bagpiper, said many band members
ignored his advice to wear customised ear plugs at a cost of £60 per pair.

Mr Bousquet said: "Sounds don't have to be uncomfortably loud to be
damaging. If pipers think hearing protection is too expensive, they should
consider what they pay for a new pair of ghillie brogues and ask themselves
what is worth more."

Eleanor Lawson, the president of the Institute of Occupational Safety and
Health, said:

"I have attended many piping events, and it is incredibly noisy. If you were
exposed to that noise level you must be putting yourself at risk."

By: JAMES DOHERTY -- 25-Aug-03

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:12 pm

Having done a bit of research in my car audio installation days, there are of course varying degrees of thought on the subject. But some generally accepted ideas I remember were:

Any exposure to sustained noise levels in excess of 70-80db can cause cumulative damage over time. This is about as loud as an average car at 65 on the freeway.

As the decibels go up, the time needed to cause permanent and irreversible damage drops exponentialy.

A jet at takeoff for example can hit levels of 130 db+ - a sound pressure level achieved by several rock bands during the 80's and 90's, seriously. These levels can cause permanent damage in a matter of minutes and even seconds depending on the person.

If anyone were exposed to sound pressure levels in excess of 192db, it is theorised that the energy of the vibrations would effectively liquify most of your internal structures, and you would turn into a sac of goo. ICK!

It is always wise to wear hearing protection of some sort, if you're ever in doubt. I don't know what the SPL of highland pipes are when playing them, but of course it would certainly be compounded by a mass pipe band. Dangerous to say the least.

Uilleann pipes are far more quiet than scots GHB, but over time, especially with the wider bore sets, there *may* be a chance for damage. You may wish to have a free hearing screening if you quesion if you have any measurable hearing loss/damage. It never hurts anyway. I know some of our sessions here have been fairly loud...kinda makes one wonder doesn't it?

B~

djm · Post by **djm** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:19 pm

Uh ... what?

Chadd · Post by **Chadd** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 4:21 pm

Could you type a little louder there Brian? I couldn't quite hear what you said.

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 7:35 pm

So why would UPers be in danger of hearing loss?

Unless of course some foolhardy UPer were hanging around with those nefarious highland pipers.

And this: " customised ear plugs at a cost of £60 per pair"

Decent hearing protection can be had for $1.50 per set of small foam ear plugs, available at any DIY shop.

Divorces and alcoholism - now they are a different financial matter altogether.

Stay tuned,
BrianC

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:01 pm

brianc wrote:So why would UPers be in danger of hearing loss?

If you don't mind 106db going off just under your chin...

Follow this link for some test results:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 9223f6f735

Those cheap foam plugs work just fine for me.

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:34 pm

This is a topic that comes round every few years. It usually starts with an amusing article in Glasgow's Daily Record.

GHBs sound at about 90dB, which is roughly similar to a concert grand piano in full flight. IIRC, concert sets of Uilleann pipes can hit similar levels with drones, a top B, regulators blazing, and heavy reeding.

Big grade 1 bands can peak 120dB in confined spaces, and I can certainly speak from experience to say that that does leave just a slight ring in the ear after a couple of hours. That said, all dB figures should be treated with real caution; it's quite easy to get a basic meter, not know what you're doing with it, and get a really impressive number out. The BBC carried a similar story to the Yahoo one, claiming that someone or other had measured a GHB at 122dB...utter rubbish.

As for ear plugs, musicians really need the expensive ones. The foam plugs protect your ears, but they don't attenuate frequencies evenly, meaning you're not hearing what's actually going on. Some can distort tone quite badly.

The rest of the story is nonsense. I dare say for any well attended activity we could all cite instances of alcoholics and divorces caused by over-excessive devotion to that hobby.

Oh well.

Cheers,
Calum
(Nae deif yet)

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:41 pm

Would you want to play a set of uilleann pipes loud enough to damage your hearing?

Once you go flat you'll never go back.

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:05 pm

Pat Cannady wrote:Would you want to play a set of uilleann pipes loud enough to damage your hearing?

Lots of people do, apparently...
Huh? What?

lemonsquash · Post by **lemonsquash** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:06 pm

Chalk up another one for the flat freaks.......

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Thu Aug 28, 2003 5:24 pm

You know how you sometimes feel like you're still riding the roller coasters after a day riding them? For hours?

I can remember hearing the drones as I went to sleep after every pipe band competition and massed bands of my youth. I also recall the articles mentioning 120ish dB SPL in the drone ear of the GHB player. If you've got that middle tenor close to ear level, it can get DAMN loud. I don't know if it's 120 dB loud, but it's loud.

I had a lot less problems once I started wearing an earplug in my drone ear. Then, later, I got a pair of nice, flat-response musician's earplugs from Etymotic. Very nice. $12/pair from their website.

Oh, and a note on the custom jobs. A few years ago I got an earmold for an esophageal stethoscope, and I have to say, it's not worth the money for custom molds. The $12 Etymotic jobs fit really well.

Stuart

AlanB · Post by **AlanB** » Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:44 am

Brian said:
"If anyone were exposed to sound pressure levels in excess of 192db, it is theorised that the energy of the vibrations would effectively liquify most of your internal structures, and you would turn into a sac of goo. ICK! "

I am currently working on a new reed design *cackle*

Alan

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:22 pm

AlanB wrote:Brian said:
"If anyone were exposed to sound pressure levels in excess of 192db, it is theorised that the energy of the vibrations would effectively liquify most of your internal structures, and you would turn into a sac of goo. ICK! "

I am currently working on a new reed design *cackle*

Alan

Hey, the one you sent me for my stolen Burke would flatten grass! Talk about "bright." I don't think your design needs any further improvement in that department. I could have scaped that in half and still been loud enough and bright enough to beat button-boxes into a pommeled wreck of broken lumber and ripped bellows.

But even at that I think it's pretty comical to hear people seriously worried about losing their hearing from UP, since there isn't a single documented case of same from Highland pipes--lots of urban legends, but no clinical history at all. In fact, in a typical pub session it's hard to hear what I'm playing over the base-level crowd noise. When the ensemble gets going you'e just one more little squeak in the mix, and my reed/chanter tend to be considered on the "loud" side.

Royce

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Mon Sep 01, 2003 1:51 pm

How would you expect there to be "documented cases" of hearing loss from GHB?

No one is exposed to a single source of noise. If you've got something you do regularly that puts your ears (or one ear) next to 90+dB with any regularity . . . and you have hearing loss . . . well, the math is easy.

Stuart

Calum · Post by **Calum** » Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:28 am

OK, here's the only definitive piece of writing I've ever seen on this subject. It was originally a magazine article, and the figures haven't been reproduced, but it is informative nonetheless.

http://www.piperanddrummer.com/features ... sp?aID=807

Cheers,
Calum