Name That Ornament

artguy · Post by **artguy** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 7:12 am

I'm new to this whole ornament thing. Whenever I listen to music, I can never figure out what they are doing when they're flippin' there fingers all over the place.

So, I was wondering, would someone mind telling me what they are using in this music clip? To me it sounds like rolls and triplets, but I could be dead wrong.
<a href="http://userweb.suscom.net/~artguy/tell- ... 3">Whistle clip</a>

Thanks for your time.

bob

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:42 am

I can't answer your question, but I love your avatar.

Whistle_along_Cassidy · Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:33 am

Cant help you there, but what is the the name of that tune is sounds very familiar.
thanx
Andrew Cassidy

Post by **Nanohedron** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:37 am

"I'll tell me Ma" is how I know it.

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:47 am

So is Blackhawk a Go player too?

lawhistle · Post by **lawhistle** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:53 am

Hi, I listened to the clip, hopefully someone else more experienced than I can also chime in, but the first ornament right up from sounds like a triplet, and the other common ornament I would describe as a 'trill', like a playing the note and then lifting the finger up on the same note and cutting. My whistle teacher would have called it a really sloppy cut, lol. It's not a trad ornament for sure, but sounds nice in that clip. I like the digeridoo in the tune.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:13 am

geek4music wrote:So is Blackhawk a Go player too?

A poor one, but yes. It's quite a game. I just don't have anyone with whom to play.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:47 am

I listened to it slowed down, I believe these are doubled cuts (doubled graces).

Sometimes like this:

A2 A{BA} G2

And sometimes like this:

G2 G{AGAG} A2

This is also much like a short trill; lawhistle is correct. I have heard this effect (and many others!) often in Matt Molloy's playing.

--James

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:55 am

I was thinking short trill, too.

This leads into something I've been thinking about. I think this is Paddy Moloney(sp?) playing, and the ornaments don't sound anything like pipe ornaments, and I don't generally find his whistling anything like his piping. Do most pipers play the whistle very differently from the pipes? I know Liam O'Flynn plays the whistle very much like the pipes -- almost no tonguing, most notes and all accents decorated somehow. How'bout fluters, too? Do they tend to bring a lot of flute-playing style to their whistling?

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 1:03 pm

Paddy plays a lot of solidly traditional piping ornaments: "shivers" or "shakes" (these are equivalent to "short trills"), double cuts, crans, rolls, staccato triplets, etc. I haven't heard him play anything that other, older pipers didn't use at one time or another, like Ennis, Touhy, etc. Get an earful of Patsy Touhy, Seamus Ennis, Willie Clancy, Leo Rowsome etc., it's all there.

As for playing the whistle differently, yes, I do anyway, I figure I have a tongue so I might as well use it to help articulate the tunes. But that's just a personal preference of mine. I use lots of ornaments too but I don't rely on either method exclusively.

artguy · Post by **artguy** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:40 pm

Thank you all for your help.

I thought it was very interesting you guys could pick up on who was actually playing the whistle and what style each person plays with. Quite facinating.

It is indeed "I'll Tell Me Ma" performed by Van Morrison & The Chieftains on Irish Heartbeat. And it is Paddy playing the whistle, to my knowledge.

Thank you for deciphering the ornaments. That just always bugged me but knew someone would have a clue on here.

blackhawk wrote:I can't answer your question, but I love your avatar.

Thanks. I do love playing Go. I'm just learning. I made by own goban and bought some Ing stones. Play with my wife on 9x9 so we both learn. Been wanting to go on the KGS servers to play with those guys.

Is geek4music a Go player as well?

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:58 pm

artguy, I may have asked before, and if I did, I apologize for my forgetfulness! Being from southwestern NJ, I can't help but wonder where in the hell Jersey Shore, PA is???

~Larry

artguy · Post by **artguy** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:50 pm

madguy wrote:artguy, I may have asked before, and if I did, I apologize for my forgetfulness! Being from southwestern NJ, I can't help but wonder where in the hell Jersey Shore, PA is???

~Larry

I don't recall you asking before, but I don't really mind repeating myself anyway. It's not quite, but close to the very middle of Pennsylvania (250 miles or so from the actual Jersey shoreline). We're about 15 miles outside of Williamsport, PA where the Little League World Series just ended this past weekend. There's several stories of why it's called Jersey Shore. I think it mostly revolves around the settlers who origanted from New Jersey starting this colony in the 1760s.

JohnPalmer · Post by **JohnPalmer** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:57 pm

The ornaments in question are just simple nonharmonic tones. Such as, where you have two consecutive D notes, played with a D chord, you put a quick E between the two D notes. E is not part of the D chord, but is the neighbor to the two D notes. The actual name in Irish-speak, I'm not sure, but in theory classes it'd be called a neighbor tone. JP

artguy · Post by **artguy** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:16 pm

JohnPalmer wrote:Such as, where you have two consecutive D notes, played with a D chord, you put a quick E between the two D notes.

Wouldn't that be considered a cut then if it is a quick E to separate 2 D notes?

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