Why do you play certain tunes?

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » Wed Dec 12, 2001 11:04 pm

I've been finally going through some of my tune books (O'Neill's Music of Ireland, Ireland's Best Slow Airs, and The Complete Irish Tinwhistle Tutor) and I can't for the life of me figure out why people would want to play a lot of these tunes. To me they just sound bad!

So my question is, why do you play the tunes you do? Is it because everyone else is? Is it because your teacher/session tells you to? Is it because they are in the books? Why?

I generally will listen to the tune first in abc, midi, MP3, or whatever format is available. Then if I like the sound of it I will learn it. After looking at some of the session books on the Internet I see that very few of my songs ever make it there. Do I have strange tastes or should I force myself to learn these tunes and hope they grow on me?

Firefly · Post by **Firefly** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 12:38 am

Obviously, it's a matter of taste and depends on the individual, but I learn the tunes I do because I enjoy playing them. As I tend to like (and have a better understanding of how to ornament) the faster stuff, that means that I don't know very many airs, but lots of reels, jigs, and Scots tunes I've learned from my father's bagpiping. I also tend to like tunes in minor and/or dorian keys, so I definitely know more of those than tunes in other keys.

Your comment about learning a tune because others play it really struck a chord with me (no pun intended). I can list loads of tunes that did nothing for me until I began playing in sessions with other musicians. Nothing can compare to 20 or 30 people sitting in a circle, and pounding out the same tune. The energy is just amazing, and you certainly don't get a feel for it until you're one of those 20 or 30 people.

Finally, I would state that listening to a midi or other audio file (especially off of the internet) is usually not, in my opinion, a good way to get a feel for whether you like a tune or not. A lot of the soundfiles on the net are...uninspired, to say the least (especially if they're machine-generated). It's the musicians who really feel the tune that breath life into it, and it's only by listening to them that you will be able to know whether or not you'll want to learn a tune.

Anyway, that's my $0.02

~Firefly

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 6:10 am

I agree that trying a tune first right out of a tunebook can be a disappointing experience. There are MANY times that I have heard a tune either at a session or a recording and loved it. When I later checked it out in a tunebook, I found that it was a tune that I formerly did not like in the book. Hearing it well played makes all the difference.
On the other hand, once in a while I love a tune right out of the book. The Kid on the Mountain comes to mind. Played it only once,having never actually heard it, and it immediately leapt into my top 10 alltime favorites. Ya never know...

ThorntonRose · Post by **ThorntonRose** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 6:55 am

I always try a tune several times before I decide if I like. Finding a recording of it helps, too.

~ Thornton

tuaz · Post by **tuaz** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:40 am

It may be the chords you're lacking. Some tunes don't seem to make much sense, or they sound really boring, until it comes together with the chords and the groove.

Ron Rowe · Post by **Ron Rowe** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 11:58 am

Some tunes I learn just for me others I learn because they are played at most sessions. The sound and feel of a tune you may not care for is totally different when played with others and you have the opportunity of introducing the tunes you play for yourself to the group and maybe work it into the session.

fiddling_tenor · Post by **fiddling_tenor** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 12:28 pm

Amen, amen, and amen! I find if I try to play a tune straight from the book, I don't like it, either! But hear it played by the likes of John Whelan, Eileen Ivers, The Cheiftains, Solas, Altan, or Cherish The Ladies...I'm sold!

MY problem is I have so many tunes I WANT to learn, but I have to keep coming to work every day...

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[ This Message was edited by: fiddling_tenor on 2001-12-13 13:29 ]

jomac · Post by **jomac** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 12:53 pm

Valid question. I learn a tune because a. I like it, b. Because something in it is difficult and I want the challenge/opportunity to learn, and c. Because it's a tune my session plays and I want to play along, even if I don't think it's the greatest tune.

I confess: I don't particularily care for the tune "Salamanca". Don't know why, and I'm not claiming it's a crummy tune - it's just not to my taste. But I practice it daily - I find it difficult to play, and learning to play it well will be an accomplishment I want to achieve. And it's often played at my session, and I wanna be able to chime in.

joe

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:57 pm

One important thing to remember is that what you're seeing in the book is just one version of the tune, and is perhaps not the version best suited to your personal tastes or instrument.

I had an experience like that trying to learn the "Longford Collector". I'd heard it a ton in sessions, and knew I wanted to learn it. But I couldn't find a recorded version in my collection, and all the printed versions I looked at seemed dull and lifeless. I couldn't get it to stick in my mind, or bring myself to practice it often.

Then one afternoon I was leafing through 121 FIST for old times' sake and discovered L.E. had included a version of the tune. I gave it a try. It fell perfectly on the whistle, and thirty minutes later I had the tune learned. There were only a few notes changed from the versions I had been looking at, but they made all the difference in the world.

Sometimes books make music too complicated, and hide the essential structure beneath endless twiddling variations. Sometimes they make it too simple, and lose the little sparkle of variation which is the difference between dully repetitive and brilliant.

And sometimes the book is just plain wrong. Glancing through O'Neill's as I wrote this post, I noticed it gives "The Broken Pledge" in D major as opposed to the usual D minor. What I assume is just a simple typo on their part makes the normally haunting reel sound grotesque.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 7:59 am

And sometimes the book is just plain wrong. Glancing through O'Neill's as I wrote this post, I noticed it gives "The Broken Pledge" in D major as opposed to the usual D minor. What I assume is just a simple typo on their part makes the normally haunting reel sound grotesque.

Frances O'Neill did not write music himself, his scribe though was clasically trained and not all too familiar wit hthe modes of Irish music, some keysignatures came out wrong indeed.
However, The Broken Pledge is not properly a reel in Dm, correctly it should be written in G and when played the F's in the second part should be lowered though not quite to Fnatural (I prefer to call the requiered note F neutral) I have heard this tune played with all Cs and Fs naturals throughout but it doesn't quite stand up to Seamus Ennis' version (on 40 years of Irish piping) where he bends the notes into shape to blend properly with the drones. Listne to that and learn.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2001-12-14 11:07 ]

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:27 am

Why play certain tunes?

Because they are there!

No, that's rather lame isn't it? Well, that line worked quite well for some guy who climbed a hill once, as I recall....

Anyway, interesting discussion. In general, I tend to learn tunes for that I like to hear. This is mostly because I am not a quick learner of tunes and I can't stand having to play something over and over again if I'm not fond of it.

OTH, Sometimes I'll learn a tune I don't much like, for a session or whatever, and come to really enjoy it later on. Odd how that can happen.

Hammy Hamilton (player and flutemaker) posted the following, in response to an unrelated topic, on the woodenflute list earlier today (Peter has no doubt heard it a thousand times already):

------------------------------------

........Reminds me of the story that Seamus Ennis used to tell about the man who was given a set of pipes, and the ability to play them, by the fairies. He was also given the choice of playing to please himself or playing to please others. He chose the first, and proceeded to play at house dances, parties etc. No one took a blind bit of notice of him, even though he thought he sounded wonderful himself. Eventually he went back to the wee boys and begged to have the music to please others, which was granted, and then he found that every time he played all feet began to tap, and the whole place leapt up to dance.....

------------------------------------

Makes a certain amount of sense doesn't it? But then again, if your only interest is playing alone in your bedroom, might as well just play whatever makes your feet tap and makes you want to leap up to dance......or whatever it is you do when the music moves you.

Loren

[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-12-14 10:32 ]

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 9:44 am

I seem to respond to something soulful
in a tune's sound, whether fast or
slow--so I also like quick stuff in minor and
dorian keys (following Firefly). Also
like cheerfulness and just plain pretty
tunes. I'm playing a lot on the street,
and I'm always on the lookout for
tunes (celtic or other) that will go well there.

I wish we had sessions here--
we don't really. Seems plain from
the posts that
one learns a lot about music that way.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:03 am

On 2001-12-14 10:27, Loren wrote:
Hammy Hamilton (player and flutemaker) posted the following, in response to an unrelated topic, on the woodenflute list earlier today (Peter has no doubt heard it a thousand times already):

------------------------------------

........Reminds me of the story that Seamus Ennis used to tell about the man who was given a set of pipes, and the ability to play them, by the fairies. He was also given the choice of playing to please himself or playing to please others. He chose the first, and proceeded to play at house dances, parties etc. No one took a blind bit of notice of him, even though he thought he sounded wonderful himself. Eventually he went back to the wee boys and begged to have the music to please others, which was granted, and then he found that every time he played all feet began to tap, and the whole place leapt up to dance.....

Loren

[ This Message was edited by: Loren on 2001-12-14 10:32 ]

There is a lot to that story, the full version is on an LP record which you should check out. You left out the most important bit though: when solely playing to please others the poor piper wasn't happy either because the music wasn't pleasing to himself and the people who loved his music now weren't really interested in what he was really trying to say through his music! And I think the essence of the story lies there.

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2001-12-14 11:12 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2001-12-14 12:27 ]

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:19 am

In regards to Loren's quote about Seamus Ennis and the little people, I can't accept the premise of not pleasing other people when hou're pleasing yourself. (I have no problem with the premise of the gentry.) I would have picked the pleasing myself option. (That's what I go by when it comes to choosing tunes, anyway.) The tunes I like are the ones I get the best at playing and feel most expressive with. And considering that 90% of my playing is upstairs in the bedroom, that's where most of the enjoyment is going to happen. Also, the tunes I like tend to be ones liked by other people (who like Irish music). If I were playing to please others and not myself, I'd get good at hiphop or pop and make money off it.
Tony
edit: If I sound redundant with Peter, he posted while I was writing. (What time is it over there, anyway? Let's see, about 430pm?)
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[ This Message was edited by: TonyHiggins on 2001-12-14 11:22 ]

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Dec 14, 2001 10:45 am

Peter,

I didn't leave anything out....Hammy did! But that's what I get for posting it without having read or heard the entire story first hand! OTH, now I've learned something

Loren