I never realised we had it so good

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:42 am

I've been browsing a violin (for ITM read fiddle) message board:

http://www.violins.on.ca/cgi-bin/ubbcgi ... &SUBMIT=Go

and every third posting seems to be of the type "I think I have a Stradivarius, can anyone give me a free online appraisal"

or "I am brand new to the violin, what make can I buy for under $100 that will sound great?"

At least we don't have to live with "Stradivarius whistles", or "I've been playing nearly two days, what whistle will make me sound like Mary Bergin" queries.

Sheesh. :roll:
________________________
Mr Grumpy

Jane · Post by **Jane** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:52 am

LOL I noticed a couple of Strads there! I guess it's the same for just about all instruments. :roll:

Pat Cannady · Post by **Pat Cannady** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:57 am

Martin Milner wrote:I've been browsing a violin (for ITM read fiddle) message board:

http://www.violins.on.ca/cgi-bin/ubbcgi ... &SUBMIT=Go

and every third posting seems to be of the type "I think I have a Stradivarius, can anyone give me a free online appraisal"

or "I am brand new to the violin, what make can I buy for under $100 that will sound great?"

At least we don't have to live with "Stradivarius whistles", or "I've been playing nearly two days, what whistle will make me sound like Mary Bergin" queries.

Sheesh. :roll:
________________________
Mr Grumpy

Hrrumph!

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:22 am

Stradivarius whistles may not be far off.

We'll see how this plays out, but there's an interesting development going on behind the scenes of wooden whistlemaking.

I've been exchanging emails with several of our favorite whistle makers about 1 X 1 X 12's of specially handled dogwood. "Dogwood" is a derivative of "dagwood," which refers to the fact that the wood is so hard, it was the material of choice for daggers in days of yore. It's an extremely hard, smooth grained, beautiful, blond aging towards pinkish, wood that might be outstanding for whistles.

The thing about this wood that makes it especially intriguing is, a gentleman in Georgia has developed a system for harvesting and seasoning wood that manages to fool the tree into not realizing it's been cut down. The result is wood that's quite dramatically different from conventionally harvested and seasoned wood.

Specifically, when you cut down a tree, the moisture gets trapped in the cells, and they swell up and crush the cell walls. Then the wood dries, and the cells shrink (shrivel, really) in such a way that the cellular structure becomes distorted and the wood becomes dimensionally unstable, with all the problems of warping, cracking, etc. with which we're familiar, and which can be disastrous for a whistle.

This wood (the process is called ESP-90) doesn't do that. On microscopic examination, it's different from conventional wood, as the cells are perfectly intact, just as if the tree were still living. The ESP-90 wood is virtually crack-proof in all applications it's been tested for so far. I've got three whistle makers ready to build prototypes, and can barely stand the suspense of finding out what the whistles are like.

As a possible additional feature, it's worth noting that the wood Stradivarious used has been examined microscopically and been found to be different from other wood in a way similar to the ESP-90 wood.

The last time I read anything about it (which was 15 or 20 years ago) they were still trying to figure out what Stradivarious had done to his wood that made it so different. They speculated that Stradivarious wood resonates differently because the intact cells act as microscopic resonating chambers. I'm curious to find out if ESP-90 wood sounds different in a whistle. My guess is, it will be too subtle to hear, but I'm intrigued, nonetheless.

I'll keep you posted.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:25 am

Rather or not the sound is substantially different, I'm sure I'm not the only one that essentially crack-proof wooden instruments would appeal to.

--James

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:28 am

I'd like to hear how this wood would effect a flute.

Jerry Freeman · Post by **Jerry Freeman** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:36 am

peeplj wrote:Rather or not the sound is substantially different, I'm sure I'm not the only one that essentially crack-proof wooden instruments would appeal to.

--James

That's what reminded me of the work Gene's done.

I'd made his acquaintance some years ago and then forgotten about ESP-90 until Tyghress posted a message about whistles cracking. That's when I got in touch with Gene and asked if he could get samples to some whistlemakers.

He's a professional woodturner, BTW, and began researching alternative ways to harvest and season wood out of frustration from his projects self-destructing due to the instability of conventionally handled wood.

He's located in the midst of the Appalachian hardwood forest, and can provide virtually any domestic hardwood desired. I'm thinking candidates for whistles and other wind instruments are dogwood, persimmon, ironwood, osage orange -- all extremely hard, close grained woods. Do any others come to mind?

Best wishes,
Jerry

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:36 am

So while we're on the subject, what whistle will make me sound like Mary Bergin?

brownja · Post by **brownja** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:46 am

jim_mc wrote:So while we're on the subject, what whistle will make me sound like Mary Bergin?

Would that be...

Mary Bergin falling of a bar stool while holding the whistle...
or
Mary Bergin actually playing the whistle...

I imagine one would be easier to emulate than the other.

Cheers,
jb

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:53 am

Yeah, and I just got a whistle that I think is an Overton Low D?

Anyone want to give me an appraisal of it?

Lothiel · Post by **Lothiel** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:56 am

brownja wrote:
jim_mc wrote:So while we're on the subject, what whistle will make me sound like Mary Bergin?
Would that be...

Mary Bergin falling of a bar stool while holding the whistle...
or
Mary Bergin actually playing the whistle...

I imagine one would be easier to emulate than the other.

Cheers,
jb

littlejohngael · Post by **littlejohngael** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:58 am

NorCalMusician wrote:Yeah, and I just got a whistle that I think is an Overton Low D?

Anyone want to give me an appraisal of it?

Sure. Send it to me.

Little John

StevieJ · Post by **StevieJ** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:07 pm

Martin Milner wrote:I... and every third posting seems to be of the type "I think I have a Stradivarius, can anyone give me a free online appraisal"

Reminds me of a story I heard in Australia about a well-known violin dealer and restorer down there, I think his name was Smith.

A man comes into his workshop asking about his violin and wanting an appraisal.

Smith, who was in the middle of a delicate repair operation at the time, glances at the instrument briefly and says, "$50".

"$50 for an appraisal?"

"No. $50 is what it's worth."

"But I think this is a Stradivarius. I want a proper appraisal."

"I told you, $50. Now please go away, I'm very busy."

The man continues to protest and refuses to leave the shop. After a few more exchanges Smith takes the violin and holding it by the neck smashes it to smithereens on his bench. He then takes $50 out of the till and thrusts it at the visitor.

"Here. $50. Now get out."

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:01 pm

Jerry

a couple of years ago, I read a story on the use of salvaged first-growth timber and its apparently exciting possibilities for musical instruments, in particular drums and stringed instruments. I wonder if anyone has tried this material for woodwinds.

For those who need explanation, salvaged first growth timber is timber that was logged a century ago or so in places like Michigan and Minnesota. In the process of floating the immense log rafts down the Great Lakes to the mills. a lot of this timber was lost and simply sank. Since the very bottoms of the lakes are both very cold and essentially anoxic, the wood was preserved and a few companies have gotten into the business of locating, refloating and salvaging the wood. Apparently the very process that preserved it for so long also gave it some interesting qualities and often a very lovely appearance as well.

Henkersbraut · Post by **Henkersbraut** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:26 pm

jim_mc wrote:So while we're on the subject, what whistle will make me sound like Mary Bergin?

Is this when I'm NOT supposed to ask the question of who she is?? (Seen her name around, though.)

Uhm, yes. So whistling, eh...?

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