Erik
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2001-12-13 13:54 ]</font>
Recommendations
Jessie-
Loren
- Posts: 8393
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
- Tell us something.: You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free - Location: Loren has left the building.
Gee Alex, what crawled up you ass and died?
First off, I've never claimed to be anything other than a relative beginner, having only a couple of years playing whistle and less than a year on the flute. In fact, I've stated publicly on the messsage board that I think my playing is rather shabby, perhaps in another 5 or 10 years it won't be, who knows. However, I've certainly never claimed to be a particularly good or experienced player, and anyone who's been around knows damn well that I've not made any false claims.
When I recommend flutes or whistles to people, including yourself - remember asking about Low F's? - I generally don't do so unsolicited. Regarding flutes, I often say things in my posts like "The Copley is a great flute for beginners", or "The M&E is relatively easy to play" and how do I know that, because, as you so astutely pointed out Einstien; I am a beginner. This and the fact that I've had the opportuninty to play a number of flutes, including M&E, Dixon, Healy, Copley, Grinter, Olwell Cane, Hodgkinson Ceramic, Hoza, and a few others I forget at the moment, gives me the right to try to assist other people just starting out when they ask for help. You see, as a beginner, I have some idea which of these flutes is easy to play. You want to know how well a flute responds to fast ornamention and octave changes? Ask David Migoya, I don't claim to be able to answer those quetions for people, and I don't try. I do sometimes pass on what I've heard from experienced players, but I make that clear by saying "I've been told" or something to that effect.
When it comes to whistles, well, I've been fortunate enough to have played about 70 different whistles of a various of brands, so I can tell people how one compares to another. Very few people who post here have had that opportunity, so most find my comments valuable.
By the way, has it ever occurred to you, smart guy, that perhaps an expert flute player with great embouchure might not be the best person to judge which flutes would be easy for a beginner to play? Here's a little something for you to think about:
A student of Skip Healy's had one of Skip's flutes but was having a heck of a time with it. Skip would pick up the flute and play it no problem, hand it back to the student and suggest more practice. Eventually, after much frustration and slow progress, the student finally convinced Skip to try working on the flute a little. Skip made a minor adjustment to the embouchure hole and Viola! The flute played, for both the student and Skip, like a dream. Really good players can get a great sound out of most flutes, but beginners want and need a flute that's easy to play. But what do I know, right Alex?
You don't like it when inexperienced people recommend instruments? How long had you been playing back on August 7th of this year when you posted an unsolicited review of your (then new) Copeland A whistle? Are you an expert with 10 or 20 years playing experience? I hope so because you rated your Copeland a "Perfect 10" in that review. By your own criteria anyone making such a bold statement should have many years of playing under their belt and be Seamus Freak'in Egan. You, I think, are not....which makes you a hypocrit.
Also, if the only people posting reviews and recommendations were folks with 10 years of playing experience, well, we'd have very few posts and all the C&F message boards would be dead. Or hadn't you thought of that, Brainiac?
My final thoughts regarding you're totally unprovoked attack:
Over the last two plus years, I've been a (mostly) positive, regular contributor to the C&F forums. I've given unselfishly of my time, energy, and experience (limited though it may be) to help others, both on and off the message boards. As far as I can tell, you haven't helped anyone but yourself, so all that's left for me to say is.....
Bite me, loser.
Loren
First off, I've never claimed to be anything other than a relative beginner, having only a couple of years playing whistle and less than a year on the flute. In fact, I've stated publicly on the messsage board that I think my playing is rather shabby, perhaps in another 5 or 10 years it won't be, who knows. However, I've certainly never claimed to be a particularly good or experienced player, and anyone who's been around knows damn well that I've not made any false claims.
When I recommend flutes or whistles to people, including yourself - remember asking about Low F's? - I generally don't do so unsolicited. Regarding flutes, I often say things in my posts like "The Copley is a great flute for beginners", or "The M&E is relatively easy to play" and how do I know that, because, as you so astutely pointed out Einstien; I am a beginner. This and the fact that I've had the opportuninty to play a number of flutes, including M&E, Dixon, Healy, Copley, Grinter, Olwell Cane, Hodgkinson Ceramic, Hoza, and a few others I forget at the moment, gives me the right to try to assist other people just starting out when they ask for help. You see, as a beginner, I have some idea which of these flutes is easy to play. You want to know how well a flute responds to fast ornamention and octave changes? Ask David Migoya, I don't claim to be able to answer those quetions for people, and I don't try. I do sometimes pass on what I've heard from experienced players, but I make that clear by saying "I've been told" or something to that effect.
When it comes to whistles, well, I've been fortunate enough to have played about 70 different whistles of a various of brands, so I can tell people how one compares to another. Very few people who post here have had that opportunity, so most find my comments valuable.
By the way, has it ever occurred to you, smart guy, that perhaps an expert flute player with great embouchure might not be the best person to judge which flutes would be easy for a beginner to play? Here's a little something for you to think about:
A student of Skip Healy's had one of Skip's flutes but was having a heck of a time with it. Skip would pick up the flute and play it no problem, hand it back to the student and suggest more practice. Eventually, after much frustration and slow progress, the student finally convinced Skip to try working on the flute a little. Skip made a minor adjustment to the embouchure hole and Viola! The flute played, for both the student and Skip, like a dream. Really good players can get a great sound out of most flutes, but beginners want and need a flute that's easy to play. But what do I know, right Alex?
You don't like it when inexperienced people recommend instruments? How long had you been playing back on August 7th of this year when you posted an unsolicited review of your (then new) Copeland A whistle? Are you an expert with 10 or 20 years playing experience? I hope so because you rated your Copeland a "Perfect 10" in that review. By your own criteria anyone making such a bold statement should have many years of playing under their belt and be Seamus Freak'in Egan. You, I think, are not....which makes you a hypocrit.
Also, if the only people posting reviews and recommendations were folks with 10 years of playing experience, well, we'd have very few posts and all the C&F message boards would be dead. Or hadn't you thought of that, Brainiac?
My final thoughts regarding you're totally unprovoked attack:
Over the last two plus years, I've been a (mostly) positive, regular contributor to the C&F forums. I've given unselfishly of my time, energy, and experience (limited though it may be) to help others, both on and off the message boards. As far as I can tell, you haven't helped anyone but yourself, so all that's left for me to say is.....
Bite me, loser.
Loren
-
ChrisLaughlin
- Posts: 2054
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
Loren, Boo Hoo Hoo, quit your crying
I'd respond but I don't have the time. I'm not like other people who have posted 414 lengthy posts,
"Jack Coen observed that most of us opened the topmost tonehole when we played the high D, but said that it's not necessary and just makes for more work. You can use the same fingering for the high D as the low D: all fingers down. I personally find that my flute "sings" a touch more fully if I open the top hole on the high D, but it would only be noticeable in slow tunes or airs. For dance music it doesn't matter.
Thanks for the fun
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexDylan on 2001-12-17 09:44 ]</font>
I'd respond but I don't have the time. I'm not like other people who have posted 414 lengthy posts,
"Jack Coen observed that most of us opened the topmost tonehole when we played the high D, but said that it's not necessary and just makes for more work. You can use the same fingering for the high D as the low D: all fingers down. I personally find that my flute "sings" a touch more fully if I open the top hole on the high D, but it would only be noticeable in slow tunes or airs. For dance music it doesn't matter.
Thanks for the fun
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AlexDylan on 2001-12-17 09:44 ]</font>
-
ChrisLaughlin
- Posts: 2054
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
I've edited this post because what Eric said made sense to me. Loren I admire and respect you. Thank you for your great contributions to this community. Eric, I thank you as well, and thank you for teaching me something good today.
Alex, I hope you feel better and may find something good to add to this board. I'm sorry for slamming you. I apologize. I think you owe Erik and Loren an apology as well.
Peace be with you,
Chris
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2001-12-13 15:11 ]</font>
Alex, I hope you feel better and may find something good to add to this board. I'm sorry for slamming you. I apologize. I think you owe Erik and Loren an apology as well.
Peace be with you,
Chris
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChrisLaughlin on 2001-12-13 15:11 ]</font>
-
ErikT
- Posts: 1590
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2001 6:00 pm
- antispam: No
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
- Contact:
An open apology:
After having a chance to pray and reflect on my post, I fear that I owe the group and Alex an apology. While I did want to say that I felt that the original post was inappropriate, I did not approach it in a gracious way. Alex, I apologize by provoking you with insults to your ability. I’m sure that you are a fine whistle and flute player, perhaps of many years, and it was unkind of me to goad you on.
And to the group, I apologize for adding fodder to the fire.
Sincerely,
Erik
After having a chance to pray and reflect on my post, I fear that I owe the group and Alex an apology. While I did want to say that I felt that the original post was inappropriate, I did not approach it in a gracious way. Alex, I apologize by provoking you with insults to your ability. I’m sure that you are a fine whistle and flute player, perhaps of many years, and it was unkind of me to goad you on.
And to the group, I apologize for adding fodder to the fire.
Sincerely,
Erik
-
mark02
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2001 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Benicia, CA
Hi All:
Well, what a way to start my day! Interesting reading first thing in the morning...
A couple of thoughts: AlexDylan seems hostile to the point of being a put-on. Lillian Gish (who knew she would ever be referenced in an Irish whistle site?) once described melodrama as "emotion in excess of situation", which seems to apply here.
However, if this is not a put-on, I'd like to take the opportunity to defend some of the fine people on this site.
Loren has consistently put forth opinions when asked about his experiences. He has always been the first to qualify his level of experience, when necessary, and has been helpful to both beginners and experienced musicians.
Erik, too, has been completely up front about his experience, and has still had the bravery to offer up what he has learned in a public forum.
Beginners, in particular, have been able to benefit from hearing from these gentlemen.
I have played flute professionally for close to 30 years, and have been able to glean some very helpful information from both Loren and Erik. I am new to Irish music, and value the input of these gentlemen.
This is a public board relating to Irish whistle. It is not strictly for professionals; it is a community based interest group. Opinions are taken in that light, and appreciated on every level.
All the best,
Mark Sackett
Well, what a way to start my day! Interesting reading first thing in the morning...
A couple of thoughts: AlexDylan seems hostile to the point of being a put-on. Lillian Gish (who knew she would ever be referenced in an Irish whistle site?) once described melodrama as "emotion in excess of situation", which seems to apply here.
However, if this is not a put-on, I'd like to take the opportunity to defend some of the fine people on this site.
Loren has consistently put forth opinions when asked about his experiences. He has always been the first to qualify his level of experience, when necessary, and has been helpful to both beginners and experienced musicians.
Erik, too, has been completely up front about his experience, and has still had the bravery to offer up what he has learned in a public forum.
Beginners, in particular, have been able to benefit from hearing from these gentlemen.
I have played flute professionally for close to 30 years, and have been able to glean some very helpful information from both Loren and Erik. I am new to Irish music, and value the input of these gentlemen.
This is a public board relating to Irish whistle. It is not strictly for professionals; it is a community based interest group. Opinions are taken in that light, and appreciated on every level.
All the best,
Mark Sackett
-
brownja
- Posts: 325
- Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2001 6:00 pm
- Please enter the next number in sequence: 1
- Location: Not sure anymore
Beginners most certainly have the right to offer advice...
Here's a common scenario.
Beginner A: I've been having a lot of trouble with XXXX, please help!
Beginner B: I, too, have struggled with XXXX, here's how I worked though it....., hope that helps.
------
If nothing else, this thread has brought the flute forum to life today.
Cheers,
jb
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: brownja on 2001-12-13 20:09 ]</font>
Here's a common scenario.
Beginner A: I've been having a lot of trouble with XXXX, please help!
Beginner B: I, too, have struggled with XXXX, here's how I worked though it....., hope that helps.
------
If nothing else, this thread has brought the flute forum to life today.
Cheers,
jb
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: brownja on 2001-12-13 20:09 ]</font>