Help: Need Basic Recording Equipment Suggestions

Limbo · Post by **Limbo** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:40 am

My eight year old son is a very talented violin player and recently he stated that he also wanted to learn to play the flute. Instead of burning a bunch of money on flute, I decided to purchase three tin whistles (Clarke Sweetone, Walton's "Little Black D", and a Susato Dublin Soprano D). I have a hunch that he is going to LOVE these little beasts for Christmas and if he doesn't then I certainly will as I plan to learn how to play them! I think I prefer the sound a whistle produces to that a flute anyday--am I crazy?

Anyway, I'd like to be able to start recording my son's music along with acompanying midi music to compact disc using my computer. My question is what equipment do I need to produce a decent sounding recordings of violin and/or whistle for a cheap a price as possible? Currently, I just have a Sound Blaster Live! Value sound card, Cakewalk Professional 6.0, and a cd-rw drive. Obviously, I'm going to need a decent instrument mic at the least. Any suggestions? What else would I need? Do I need a mixer for example? What about reverb? Do most of the "haunting" whistle tunes I hear recorded use artificially added reverb?

I'm really clueless here so I really appreciate any help!

-bob crane
limbo666@attbi.com

raindog1970 · Post by **raindog1970** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 12:03 pm

I use Cool Edit Pro to do all my recording and editing work, but it's a fairly expensive bit of software.
A little reverb and/or echo does wonders to add depth to your recordings... you'd just have to play around with it a little to truly appreciate just how much of an improvement it can make.
As for a good microphone, see my post regarding the one I picked up a few weeks ago:
<A HREF=http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... forum=1</A>

_________________
"[Rain Dogs] ...the ones you see wanderin' around after a rain. Ones that can't find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants..."
Tom Waits

[ This Message was edited by: raindog1970 on 2001-12-07 13:06 ]

ysgwd · Post by **ysgwd** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 2:47 pm

Limbo,
Welcome to the board! I prefer the sound of whistle to flute too and I'm curious what your son will like about each of his three new whistles.
Lisa

mark02 · Post by **mark02** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 3:57 pm

Just would like to pose a question, from the position of devil's advocate. Here is the reason I ask the question:
My first music teacher once told me, "The instrument that sounds the best to you will be the easiest to learn."
Your son asked for a flute. He probably likes the sound of flute; there's nothing wrong with that at all. If your son is talented musically, and I have no doubt that he is, he probably knows what he likes.

You mentioned that you didn't want to "burn a bunch of money of a flute". A flute, even a good studen flute, would cost far less than most (even low end) recording equipment. There may even be a good rental deal in your area (most instruments can be rented for just a few months, for exactly the reasons you stated).

So, my question is, who are you buying these for? Sounds like your son wants a flute, and you'd like whistles and recording equipement. There's nothing wrong with any of that, except no where in there does your son get to play an instrument he has interest in.

Wishing both you and your son all the best,
Mark Sackett

12/7 Edited for spelling and grammar...

[ This Message was edited by: mark02 on 2001-12-07 17:00 ]

Parkwood · Post by **Parkwood** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 4:27 pm

Hi Bob!

This question comes up a lot in my line of work.

The good news is that you've got most of the recording equipment already - you should (depending on the version) find that Cakewalk will record audio tracks alongside your MIDI, then you'll be able to mix down to CD complete with the built in reverb/delay effects in Cakewalk.

What I would suggest is to get a fairly good microphone. You can either go for a general purpose mic or a more sensitive one. (Good suggestions would be the AKG D series or C1000s) These start around £30 and are excellent value for money if you want good results.

Secondly I would consider buying either a small mixer or mic pre-amp so that you can feed a suitable signal into your line input on the soundcard. The line inputs are of much higher quality than the mic inputs which are really only designed for simple 'multimedia' microphones. I'd suggest a Spirit Notepad mixer at around £100.

I used to use a similar system Cubase/cheaper SB soundcard/mixer/mic to record fairly respectable demos for my duo.

Hope this helps - email me for further tips if need be....

Parkwood

tubafor · Post by **tubafor** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:34 pm

Someone already mentioned Cool Edit Pro... the good news is that Cool Edit 2000 is a lot cheaper, and can be upgraded via plugins so that you only add the features you need. For example, I run CE2000 at home, with the Studio plugin that gives me 4 track recording capability. You can also add things like enhanced noise reduction, etc. when you need 'em. It's worth checking out - the program is simple to use, runs on about anything with any soundcard, and works very VERY well. I produce lots of things for on-air, including a 10 minute music appreciation program for kids, all in CE2000. Check it out at http://www.syntrillium.com

Cal

jackorion · Post by **jackorion** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:12 pm

Well I don't don't have any parental advice (easy there Mark), but I can say something about the AKG C1000 mic. You want a condenser mic for recording vocals and winds. No doubt about it. The C1000 (about $200.00) is a good mic for the money. It can be a bit hissy but thats common in condenser Mics. They (condenser mics) are super sensitive. It also works on a 9volt so you won't need phantom power. I quickly upgraded to a large diaphram Rode mic. A quality mic is extremely essential for good recording habits. You can spend 2,000.00 and up for some. I think the Radio Shack Idea might be best as my Tom Waits friend suggested. They used to have a decent condenser for cheap.
Happy Holidays and bring the kid to C&F. The world needs more whistlers. Thats one thing I'm sure of!
Jack "Forever Young" Orion

Limbo · Post by **Limbo** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 10:11 pm

I'm all for getting my son a flute, Mark, if my son shows a sustained desire for it--What most 8-year-olds want one month maybe not what they want the next. Plus, I know it's a lot easier to play a whistle than a flute. Thus, I think the whistles fit the bill for right now given that that a flute and a whistle sound roughly the same. Thanks for the suggestion on renting though, that option didn't occur to me. Of course, I'm not completely altrusistic towards my son--I'm looking forward to the whistles myself and I plan to start our own Irish band!

Thanks all for the advice on the microphones and other equipment and software. I just may be stopping into Radio Shack in the next day or two as the very cheap mic may suit my needs just fine for right now.

I do have one question though: What other type of microphone is there besides the condenser mic? I've heard of references to "voice mics" and "instrument mics" as if one type better serves the voice and the other the instrument. Is the condenser mic usually considered the "voice mic?" Instrument mics are usually more senstitive to a wider frequency range? I've noticed that a whistle can get very shrill in the high notes and I'm surprised that a mic could be good for both voice and whistle if my statements above are true.

I got the three whistles in the mail yesterday from The Whistle Shop. I'll post my first impressions in a different post.

Cheers.
-bob crane
limbo666@attbi.com

Feadan · Post by **Feadan** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 11:19 pm

My original posting and Bob's reply to mark02 unfortunately were two ships passing in the night. I have already apologised to Bob privately and explained the circumstances. I will say it one more time in public. Sorry Bob!!!

Cheers,
David

[ This Message was edited by: Feadan on 2001-12-10 00:14 ]

Limbo · Post by **Limbo** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 1:52 am

[ This Message was edited by: Limbo on 2001-12-10 14:46 ]

Parkwood · Post by **Parkwood** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 5:05 am

Just to say that the cheaper AKG mic (about £35 over here) would be a lot better quality for the money than the RS one.

Cool Edit 2000/Pro are absolutely first rate bits of software, but they are audio only, so you won't be able to sequence MIDI parts on the same screen alongside the audio.

Cheers

Parkwood

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 5:47 am

Limbo,

AKG makes a microphone package including the cord, boom stand and headphone for $80 at Mars Music. SKU#3122702 it's a general purpose dynamic vocal/instrument mic that should sound fine for your needs.

Take a look at Cakewalk Home Studio 2002 for your most cost effective way to mix your digital audio with MIDI http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/HS/HS02.html
Reverb & effects generally come standard in the software. Unless you plan to record several instruments/voices to one track you probably won't require a mixer. You'll be 'recording' one track at a time.

I also suggest you get an inexpensive keyboard instrument like a Casio CTK-471. ($90 at Mars Music) You might use this as the 'basis' for music and music theory, it could take your kid(s) further along than a traditional instrument. It's electronic, supports MIDI or plays stand alone. It's not such a possessive instrument with a group of kids.

Good luck on the home studio.

[ This Message was edited by: Tony on 2001-12-09 07:49 ]

jackorion · Post by **jackorion** » Sun Dec 09, 2001 7:32 pm

Limbo, I'm right there with ya. I'm not even a parent and I'm disturbed by the parental advice.

About the microphones. There are Dynamic mics which are what you see being used live. They pick up what is infront of them with out the feedback or bleeding (surrounding noise) that you would get from a condenser. Treat vocals as a wind instrument. Use a condenser for the majority of studio work, you would be amazed at the quality difference.

Jack "Never did like Tipper Gore" Orion

Limbo · Post by **Limbo** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 1:51 pm

Thanks for the additional advice. In my original post, I didn't mention that I do have a Yamaha PSR-500 keyboard in addition. (Which the son puts countless hours playing on.) The piano sound on it is pretty nice and it blows away the piano on the SB Live, so I may wish to record with it in addition to the whistle and/or violin. If I'm on a budget then one condenser mic should be sufficient as long as all the instruments are in close proximity to each other?

-bob

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Dec 10, 2001 2:50 pm

Limbo,
Microphones have different pickup patterns
(unidirectional, omnidirectional, carioid)
that determine how they best work. This is not to be confused with the element type (dynamic, ribbon, electric condenser)

In general, for a single source... like a singer on a stage where you don't want other sounds to come through, you would choose a unidirectional mic. If you place several people in a group with this mic the one it's directly pointed at should record much louder than the others even if the ones on the sides are physically closer to the mic.

An omnidirectional mic would be better suited for a group of singers or musicians when only one microphone available.

What *IS* your microphone budget ??
Go to Radio Shack, put on headphones and sound check several microphones... I'm sure you'll find something under $50 that will sound great!
Back in the 70's I took a sound engineers course at Criteria Recording Studios. It was said that some artists bypassed the $1,000 microphones and went for the $100 Shure mics because they preffered their sound.