Why is learning by ear preferable?

[Bloomfield]

I won't go into details what and how I play, as I feel that most of you are already convinced that I'm a paper-dependent bloke who will never be able to listen to, let alone play any music at all. So why try to get you to listen to (ok, read) what I have to say anyway? This is what really annoys me in this discussion.

People have been reading your posts, Sonja (bloke???), and have been responding to them. Now if you don't like some of the comments, that's a different matter. As for who lives in the bosom of the tradition and all that: I'd rather not get into it. It doesn't do much more than encourage ad-hominem arguments.

My advice is read what people say, make up your own mind about what convinces you and what doesn't, and do your thing as you think it is right. You don't need people to agree with you in order to be right (and you could still be wrong even if people agree with you).

Viel Glück dabei.

[mamakash]

I haven't commented on this thread, and now it's time to.

It's time to teach us how to all play by ear. Seriously. This must be a skill that is teachable and once we all learn it, we'll all be better players. So, how to we start? Give us a lesson plan. It's not about hearing a song twenty times or playing with feeling. There must be a way to idenify what I hear and then parrot it back. Do I tackle a whole song at once? Do I break it down into small bits? When I listening to a recording, what am I supposed to be listening for?

I put this task up to the experienced ones on the board.

[U2]

U2:

I'm pretty much isolated from the "tradition"...I won't go into details what and how I play, as I feel that most of you are already convinced that I'm a paper-dependent bloke who will never be able to listen to, let alone play any music at all. So why try to get you to listen to (ok, read) what I have to say anyway? This is what really annoys me in this discussion...On the other hand, I'd be interested how many of the die-hard traditionalists really are "in" the tradition, with sitting on Grandpa's knees listening and living in the holy land and all.

Sonja

Sonja - None of my comments were about anyone personally, and none were intended to annoy. You have options, and time spent on sheet music may not be wasted if it has helped you get chops on the whistle. If you want to advance in ITM I would, however, suggest developing your listening skills as you establish a repertoire. Locate a teacher, if at all possible. Sus out someone else who attends the session you referenced. Recording are a resource. LE McCullough's tune set, Paddy O'Brien's, or others meant to be teaching tools, are a good place to start. Stevie J's site has lots of great information. Learn the basic ornaments.

Take a tune you already know by memory and listen to how a trad player plays it. If you don't know one, pick a simple one, like "The Kerry Polka." Get so familiar with one tune, to where the tune is in your head and you can sing it, or hum it. Know whether each successive note is higher or lower than the one before it. You don't even have to start with a tune from ITM, just so as you are working on the listening skills to start. Work the tune out. Work on one tune and get it down pat.

You don't have to be sitting at someone's knee to lift tunes and learn them, although a patient, resourceful, teacher can rapidly advance the speed at which one learns to lift tunes, and can really save time by pointing out mistakes in meter, etc.. Set some realistic goals. After you develop listening skills you can begin to raise your expectations. My own initial goal was to get one new tune a week. Now I usually get two to three. The skills of the ear get easier quickly. Go to the live session whenever you can. Make it a priority, if it is. None of this is necessary to play the whistle. It is, however, essential to experience the joy of participating in a session. Listen all you can to players within the tradition. You may soon find that tunes you weren't initially drawn to hold more than you first noticed.

The folks on this board are an excellent resource, and I would encourage you not to let disagreement on some finer point keep you from seeking support and options here. Good luck. Steve

[Bloomfield]

This might get you started. There will be better explanations, though, and you might want to run a search, too.

As for learning by ear....it's easier for a rock to swim.

You can learn to learn by ear, it's a skill not gift. And as skill it takes a bit of effort, at least at first. Don't cheat yourself out of this by just assuming you can't do it.

First get a recording of a simple tune you want to learn. Make sure it's in the right key and clear enough.

Then listen to it over and over and over. A hundred times is not exaggerated. It's good to have it on repeat while you are doing dishes or whatever it is that you do.

Then listen to it some more, focussed on the music, noting the parts and repeats and repeated phrases within each part.

Learn to sing/lilt it. This is extremely important.

Sit down, pick up your whistle and start playing along. If you are like me, you'll be spending about half an hour sounding like an idiot who stepped on a cat. Just keep at it relentlessy. (It helps to know that others can't hear you, or not to care if they do.) This is the hard part, just poking around, sounding awful, seemingly without end.

Suddenly you'll get notes, bits, snatches of phrases.

Now keep working on it. Some parts will be harder than others. When you're stuck, stop the music, sing the phrase to yourself (you can sing the whole tune, remember) and then figure it out. It's not unusual for me to have the whole tune, but to be stuck on a phrase or two.

It's really fun, by the way, to hear the tune emerging from this effort. The more you do it the easier it will get (remember, if you can't sing it, you can't learn it and remember it right).

One last point: If you decide to break the tune up into bits, go by phrase and not by measure.

Best.

[skh]

mamakash,

here's how I do it:

1. Listen to it, whatever it is, at a normal speed recording you like, over and over again until you think you know it by heart.

2. Sing it. You probably won't be able to do so, so try to remember as much as possible and sing that.

3. Listen again, knowing what you didn't remember in 2. If you know music theory, try to hear what mode it is in and on what note on the scale it starts (not absolute, but relative - "dorian starting on first not" or "major staring on fifth"). If this is chinese to you, don't bother. Listen for long "rest" notes in a tune. Listen for patterns you know.

4. Repeat 2. and 3. as long as needed. Sometimes it is hard to hear every single note in fast speed, but you always hear where it is going. Try to fill in the missing notes with how it could go (after all, the patterns ITM tunes follow do repeat themselves), and then listen to yourself and compare if this is how the tune should sound.

5. Sing on syllables, not only "lalalala", more like "dee-deediddlydeedarum-deedlediray...". (I know there's a tradition for lilting as well, but I have no intention to follow that one, as I know absolutely nobody who can do this and tell me how. I just lilt, and never in public.) Vary the syllables. Mimick ornamentation in the recording. How would you pronounce a roll, how a cut?

6. Sing, sing, sing. Walking gives a nice "beat", even if it's probably not session speed. (Sing quieter when you meet people.)

7. Take your instrument and play.

[U2]

I haven't commented on this thread, and now it's time to.

It's time to teach us how to all play by ear. Seriously. This must be a skill that is teachable and once we all learn it, we'll all be better players. So, how to we start? Give us a lesson plan. It's not about hearing a song twenty times or playing with feeling. There must be a way to identify what I hear and then parrot it back. Do I tackle a whole song at once? Do I break it down into small bits? When I listening to a recording, what am I supposed to be listening for?

I put this task up to the experienced ones on the board.

mamakash - For me the goal actually is to get the whole tune after hearing it once. I'm better with some tunes than others. Example: Pentatonic melodies seem to stick a bit quicker right now than more complex melodies. Although I have lifted tunes by only hearing them played at sessions, I love mini-disc recorders as a tool to develop listening skills. Record a tune and set track marks after each phrase. Many are two-part tunes, so it's pretty simple. Learn the A part, then learn the B part. Then work on the transition from A to B. Then work on going from the end of the B part to the start of the A part. Try to put some ornamentation, even if just the odd cut, into the tune from the start of learning it.

If you find you always know the A part better than the B part, because you start over every time you miss a note, learn the B part first. There are many different techniques and tricks to imprint tunes to memory, then it's only a matter of getting the notes out of the instrument. But you can do that so much more readily once you actually know the tune. I hope that what works for me also works for you.

[U2]

mamakash,

here's how I do it:...

Me thinks this isn't as it first appeared.

[skh]

Hm - sorry, I forgot something:

Sing/lilt very slowly to make sure you don't slur over the parts you didn't get.

Sing/lilt, and later, play at normal speed and listen to yourself. Does it sound Irish (or whatever it is)? For dance music, do you want to dance? If not, listen more.

U2: thanks for the tips. I'm sure they will be useful for others as well.

Sonja

[Azalin]

Another suggestion: I'd suggest buying Walton's 101 Best Session Tunes or Best Whistle Tunes. It's played slow enough to let unexperienced ears pick the tune, and at the same time is played in a very traditionnal way.

I started learning from these CDs, and I think it's great stuff. With time I could recognize new subtle playing "tricks" like ornamentation, phrasing, etc, but it lets you start right away with simple tunes and very clear melody.

I know that ears can be trained, and it takes some effort, but it becomes easier and easier with time. Just be willing to suffer for a few months/years

[janice]

Get thee to a camp. There are lots of these "Irish" theme weeks around these days, and they are a particularly good source if you are isolated from other players. You get a week of immersion into the music, and if you bring along a tape recorder, get tons of taped stuff to take home to learn from(this is how I learned ornamentation years ago). Not to mention that you'll have tons of fun and meet lots of like-minded people.

*And*most of them are cheap too!

Excellent 'how to' suggestions from all regarding learning by ear.

[FJohnSharp]

My teacher informed me today that we would be learning the occasional song by ear, just because that's the way music was traditionally learned. I blithely informed him I'd be skipping those weeks. He laughed, I laughed, it was great fun.

I know it's for my own good, but...damn.

[spittin_in_the_wind]

OK, that's it. I'm going to work through the Rileys School of Music tunes strictly by ear:

http://w3.one.net/~rsim/music.htm

And then maybe do Scoiltrad.

Robin

[Lizzie]

A lot of those who have responded see a case for sheet music once one has acquired some skill at Irish trad. But it seems to be 'no way' for beginners.
Maybe some of you have forgotten what it is like to be a rank beginner.

I am a relative beginner and I remember so well my very beginning days, and if I had not had sheet music, my whistle would have been in the garbage within a week. As a beginner I didn't care a hoot about the nuances of Irish trad. I just wanted to get my fingers right, make clear sounds and play a few simple tunes. I had been away from music for a long time..I had no ear to speak of. Sheet music got me playing. And bit by bit my ear improved to the point that now, after 18 months, I can pick out just about any tune I know by ear and I have learned some tunes I didn't know by ear.

I have learned a lot from this thread and I thank all who took the time to respond with thoughtful answers and comments. It gave me a lot to think about.

[Lizzie]

A lot of those who have responded see a case for sheet music once one has acquired some skill at Irish trad. But it seems to be 'no way' for beginners.
Maybe some of you have forgotten what it is like to be a rank beginner.

I am a relative beginner and I remember so well my very beginning days, and if I had not had sheet music, my whistle would have been in the garbage within a week. As a beginner I didn't care a hoot about the nuances of Irish trad. I just wanted to get my fingers right, make clear sounds and play a few simple tunes. I had been away from music for a long time..I had no ear to speak of. Sheet music got me playing. And bit by bit my ear improved to the point that now, after 18 months, I can pick out just about any tune I know by ear and I have learned some tunes I didn't know by ear.

I have learned a lot from this thread and I thank all who took the time to respond with thoughtful answers and comments. It gave me a lot to think about.

[Roger O'Keeffe]

Here's a slightly updated version of something which I wrote in an earlier thread on learning ITM by ear:

As regards learning tunes by ear, it helps if you listen "actively" to a tune on a recording. In other words, rather than listen passively to random tunes and hope to pick them up by osmosis (though this can also work), you can learn more effectively by focusing on one tune at a time and figuring out what's going on in that particular tune. The arranged sound of some well-known groups is OK, but for learning tunes it's probably better to use solo recordings or recordings in which the accompaniment is relatively subdued.

The essential principle of Irish music is lots of repetition, but with subtle variation. Most two-part tunes are played "AA-BB", i.e. the first part is played twice, then the second part is played twice, then the whole lot is repeated one or more times in the same AA-BB format (it's probably best to stick to two-part tunes at first till you have honed your learning-by-ear skills, but the same principles apply even to the big six-and seven-part tunes).

If you listen to the first (or "A") part of a typical tune, you will notice that it is made up of four "blocks", normally about two measures long, though the musical phrases may not correspond exactly to the measures as broken down with bar lines. Let's call these blocks "a1", "a2", "a3 "and "a4" (same goes for the B part, as appropriate).

Typically, the "a1" and "a3" blocks are similar to each other or even identical, and there are also similarities between "a2" and "a4", though "a4" often differs to a greater extent, to signal that it's the end of the part. In some tunes, you will notice that "b4" is the same as "a4".

Armed with this knowledge, listen to the tune again a few times and try to anticipate what's coming next, i.e. mentally (or even out loud) sing along with the record. You will gradually find that you're getting most of the notes right, and you can then focus on an ever smaller number of notes which you haven't quite figured out. This is the approach which makes it possible for someone like Kitty Hayes to gradually join in in with a tune which they haven't heard before. It's also a good reason for playing each tune more than what used to be the statutory twice in sessions, especially if there are beginners or newcomers in the session.

Using this approach will also help you to really notice the effect of variation, where the musician is consciously varying bits of the tune which in a simple transcription are shown as identical.

When you have mastered a tune from a particular recording it is still worth while taking the same approach when you hear the same tune being played by someone else (whether live or on a recording). That way you will gradually become aware which bits are essential parts of the tune and which are someone's variations. But that doesn't mean that there is a single "right" way to play the tune, because Irish tunes are rather like the meanderings of the Ho Chi Minh Trail in which different pathways intertwine, converge and diverge but you can take any of them as long as they all lead you in the right general direction.

And yes, I know I've split a couple of infinitives.