question about john gallagher flutes

[jim stone]

If I may ask you a question about J Gallagher flutes. I played one of these for about a week, an eight-key small holed Rudall, and found it too heavy for me. My left wrist began hurting. Of course I'm older than Moses. Still trying to figure out what's going on. Are these uncommonly heavy? I think I once had a similar problem with an eight keyed Grinter, but with nothing else I've played.

[paddler]

I can't directly answer your question about the weight of Gallagher or Grinter 8-key flutes, but in addition to considering the weight of a flute as a possible factor in your wrist pain, you might also consider issues such as the balance of the flute, and the outside diameter of the flute body at the point where it rests in your left hand. Flutes with a long foot and a lot of keys are a lot more foot-heavy than keyless or short foot flutes. This changes the balance point and makes for a different feel in the hand. Sometimes it can help to counter-balance the heavy foot with a heavier head. Even though the overall weight of the flute would go up, the balance may be better and it may lead to less strain. I have heard it argued that fully lined heads became popular around the same time that extra foot keys came in, primarily due to this counter-balancing function.

I find that I am a little sensitive to this, and to the profile (shape) and outside diameter of the body around (and slightly above) the L1 tone hole. Personally I prefer the feel of flutes that are generally on the slimmer end of the spectrum, with a slight concave profile. They just feel more comfortable in my hand, but obviously this will vary from one player to another. When I've measured the outside diameter of different flutes I've been surprised by how much difference a change of 1 mm makes to the feel in the hand.

[radcliff]

I own one and have tried a couple of his flutes, and yes, they are bit larger than other makers intruments. About the weight it is about the same of my main flute, but 30gr. more than my R&R and 40 gr. less than my Prowse. Of course my boxwood Clementi is much lighter, 100gr less!

[Unseen122]

Never really thought about it before but, yes, I think my flute is heavier than others (I haven't weighed it nor do I have any other 8 key flutes to compare it but that's what my hands tell me). The headjoint is where I think the weight is; I can say that when I pick up flutes of other makers, including Grinters, they feel very light to me on the left hand. I don't feel like the rest of the flute is heavier than others but I do think John's flutes have some extra weight on the top. I think the headjoint is a thicker diameter than most other makes (feels/looks like it) and/or there could, perhaps, be some extra weight in the end cap mechanism. Grinters, Olwells, etc. all feel like they have really slim headjoints when I play them. Obviously nothing I am saying is scientific but it is something that I have noticed over time; I think it probably contributes more to balance than anything else. Since you mention noticing this issue on 2 8 key flutes, Jim, I have to ask; have you owned any 8 key flutes that didn't feel heavy? Have you owned any flutes with less than 8 keys that did feel heavy? It could be the issue for you has more to do with balance than actual weight; I have a friend who plays a 6 key Grinter and it feels light as a feather to me compared to my Gallagher, especially at the top. I just want to reiterate; none of what I am saying is scientific as I haven't weighed any of these flutes and have nothing comparable on hand to do so.

[Hack with a Flute]

The only Gallagher I've played was Dave Migoya's Bb. That thing is HEAVY! I'm a big boy, too. However, if the weight of the flute is somehow necessary to make the sound that comes out of it, I'd get some wrist supports. THE most amazing Bb flute I've heard. I played it next to an Olwell Bb and there was no comparison, the Gallagher is, hands down, a better instrument!

[jim stone]

Thanks everybody. Most helpful. I had better add that I'm pushing 75, and could use a new body. Yes, I've played an eight keyed flute (from around 1840) that was light. Anyway I've sent the JG rudall to the Irish Flute Store and they are, I think, sending it to JG to check over--e.g. the bottom keys need adjusting. Thanks again.

[chas]

Jim, I can definitely tell you that the Grinter you got from me was VERY heavy -- 15.5 oz/440 g . Also the fully lined head made it head-heavy, at least for me and my wife (a silver flute player).

If you really like the playability/sound of John's flutes but were put off by the weight, there are two very easy ways to lighten up a flute: boxwood is about 20 % lighter than blackwood. Also, an unlined head will take some off, plus if the flute is head-heavy (as Avery pointed out), it will shift the balance toward the foot.

I have an old Olwell (pre-serial-number) all-wood flute that weighs in at 7.5 oz/200 g. I'm getting a keyed flute from them that will fit onto the all-wood headjoint, which I hope will allow me to play for longer than I'm generally able on a flute with a slide. I also have serious hand issues.

[Steampacket]

"Thanks everybody. Most helpful. I had better add that I'm pushing 75, and could use a new body". Jim Stone

Problem solved Jim:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-man ... ransplant/

[jim stone]

Thanks for the video. Well, maybe I'll just play a lighter flute.

[plunk111]

I've played a John Gallagher 8-key Pratten for quite a while now and will never sell it (unusual for me). Yes, it is a little heavier than other makers' flutes, but not overly so. I bought it used and got a good deal on it because the previous owner (Blayne Chastain, actually) thought it was too heavy. So, you aren't the only one! I will say that I have played it (a LOT) for the last 6+ years (sometimes on multi-hour gigs in front of an audience) and have never felt that the weight was a detriment. I have played and/or owned a whole bunch of other makers' flutes (yes, including Olwell) and can honestly say that there aren't any better than John's flutes.

Pat

[jim stone]

I guess some people are going to have issues with weight, especially as they age. The JG small-holed Rudall sounded very good, and he told me he would re-ream the bore--this being standard practice after a few years, apparently.

[Unseen122]

I've played a John Gallagher 8-key Pratten for quite a while now and will never sell it (unusual for me). Yes, it is a little heavier than other makers' flutes, but not overly so. I bought it used and got a good deal on it because the previous owner (Blayne Chastain, actually) thought it was too heavy. So, you aren't the only one! I will say that I have played it (a LOT) for the last 6+ years (sometimes on multi-hour gigs in front of an audience) and have never felt that the weight was a detriment. I have played and/or owned a whole bunch of other makers' flutes (yes, including Olwell) and can honestly say that there aren't any better than John's flutes.

Pat

I'd have to say most of this applies to my experience as well (OK; I didn't get mine from Blayne nor have I owned an Olwell [although a former housemate and former teacher both did]). I feel as if my flute is as good, if not better, than any others I've owned or tried (the only other one I felt like I would like as much was a Wilkes large hole rudall).

Yeah, Jim, John likes to re-ream the bores every now and then. I actually just got mine back from him a couple of weeks ago as I needed some keys re-padded and he gave the bores a run through too. I have always found John to be pretty good about servicing his flutes when needed; he isn't always super quick to get things done (i.e. I had to email and then call before I heard back and he had the flute for about a month) but he always gets it done in a fairly reasonable amount of time (compared to a good friend of mine who waited 4 months for Grinter to re-pad the keys on his flute a few years back) and doesn't really charge much if anything (he re-padded 6 of the keys on my flute, re-reamed it, re-wrapped the tenons, polished the silver, and re-finished the exterior; what he charged me for all of that was so low I wouldn't even want to post it on a public forum, you would pay a similar amount to get one to 3 keys re-padded from another maker.)