Can't Decide...

[Poohze]

G'day All,

There are a couple of things I've been pondering recently, and I'd appreciate the thoughts/suggestions/observations/etc. of the more experienced Fipplers.

Firstly, I got my Freeman Bluebird and Mellow Dog (D/C set) a couple of weeks ago now -they arrived the same day as the Paddy Maloney & Sean Potts 'Tin Whistles' CD. That was a good whistle-day! The original idea was that I'd practice with both and choose whichever one seemed best suited to be my main learning whistle. The problem, surprise surprise, is that I'm finding it very hard to choose! I love both whistles a lot, as different as they are, and feel that I'm learning slightly different lessons from each. I know the smart advice for beginners is to stick to one whistle for a while, but I'm not sure which would be the 'better' learning whistle for me at this stage. The MD is more forgiving, and I really love it's breathier, more complex sound, but I suspect the BB will teach me better fine breath control, and there's no denying that its sweet voicing makes me smile. So what do you think? Bluebird? Mellow Dog? Do I really need to choose, or can I keep practicing with both without too dire an effect on my learning? Could their differences actually benefit my learning?

Secondly, as happy as I am with the BB and MD, that joy only satisfies the WOAD-demon for so long My medium-term goal is to work my way down to low-D whistles, and I've also been thinking that a quieter whistle might be useful for late night tootling without waking my wife or daughter. So I'm contemplating one of Mack Hoover's whistles in Bb. I'm particularly interested in the phenolic resin whistles he makes. The Parks whistles are a possibility, but they don't come in Bb. So, the WOAD-demon justifies a new whistle purchase on the grounds that a Bb whistle will help me start getting used to longer stretches and lower tones, that a quiet whistle will enable me to get more whistling in, and that one of the Hoover resin whistles will broaden my whistle-knowledge. On the other hand, the boring-old-common-sense-angel tells me that I'd be much better off waiting till I've got at least another few months of playing under my belt before buying any more whistles. So, whaddyarekkin?
Oh, btw, I've read a few of the previous threads about muting whistles, and that's an option if I don't buy the Hoover. I also have an old Clarke Meg and a Clare, both in D, so I guess I could mute one of those for night-time play. Won't gratify the WOAD, however

Cheers

Marc E

[ggunner]

Carey Parks does make a Bb whistle. Visit his website and take a look around. He makes both a Bb and an A whistle to go along with his standard Eb, D, C whistles. He is also willing to make a C# whistle on a custom order basis. You might also want to consider the "Shush" whistle. It is a tweaked Generation/Green fipple whistle modified to play very softly. These are available from Big Whistle Music, which also has a website you can look over.

[Mr.Gumby]

The problem is, another whistle is not going to make you play one iota better. So you can face the frustration of not sounding the way you would like to sound by doing the easy thing and throw money at it to get the buzz of another package arriving and call it some funny name in the process. Eventually you'll have to face up and put in the work, there's only so many whistles you can buy before you realise they're only dead objects if you can't use them to to at least a reasonable percentage of their potential. You may as well get stuck in now.

[Angel Shadowsong]

Hi Marc,

Different whistles has their perks and peculiarities with them.
Since I am doing some weight training, I will put the same principle and compare it to whistle playing.

The wider the bore and/or the steeper the window blade and/or the wider the window blade from the embouchure, require a lot of air which affects the tonal quality and/or volume.

Each person has different breath control weather default speaking voice or air expectations from a different wind instrument. Thus, training on different whistles gives an advantage to create your breath control flexible, agile and sensitive.

Treat the whistles as though they are breath weights. Those who require large air are heavy weights that gives you "muscle" (breath) strength and those which require lesser air are lighter weights which create a nice cut in your "muscle" (air control).

I started out with a feadog which I tend to squeek often. The same is true with a Susato V-series. Then I went to a hoover that made me access the 3rd octave easier than the first octave.

Then I went to an S-series D which I like because of the volume, but I frequently get an octave flipping.

Then I found Dixon, and Generation.

I started wondering why and thought that the makers of the whistles are d@mn crazy to be different with one another.

I then applied the law of Supply and Demand. That is, each whistle has a different but fixed demand of air in its respective registers/octaves/notes and I as the player must adjust the supply of air to find the equilibrium.

I ended my Whoad quest with the concept of LOVE.

I can not change the whistle for what it is. It is me who should understand and to love that whistle for what it is (no matter which maker).

Thanks to my gym trainor, my Economics teacher, and Doctor Love Feadoggie for those wonderful lesson I have applied on whistles.

Regards,
Angel

[tin tin]

I'm with Gumby on this. Acquire music, not things!

Why not set a musical goal with the whistles you have, and when you've reached it, get a Bb whistle as a mile-marker/reward? Too many instruments is just a distraction: focus on the music.

As for the Bluebird/Mellow Dog choice, sure, play both, but space it out by a few days or a week. Or stick to one, if you find yourself making better progress--whatever gets you closer to making the music you want. (And in case you're not already using it, here's a great place to learn: http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/b ... index.html)

[Poohze]

Carey Parks does make a Bb whistle. Visit his website and take a look around. He makes both a Bb and an A whistle to go along with his standard Eb, D, C whistles. He is also willing to make a C# whistle on a custom order basis. You might also want to consider the "Shush" whistle. It is a tweaked Generation/Green fipple whistle modified to play very softly. These are available from Big Whistle Music, which also has a website you can look over.

I did see those, and then promptly forgot about them (doh! ) Thanks for the reminder! Gah! Iwas hoping to make the choice easier, not harder!

The problem is, another whistle is not going to make you play one iota better. So you can face the frustration of not sounding the way you would like to sound by doing the easy thing and throw money at it to get the buzz of another package arriving and call it some funny name in the process. Eventually you'll have to face up and put in the work, there's only so many whistles you can buy before you realise they're only dead objects if you can't use them to to at least a reasonable percentage of their potential. You may as well get stuck in now.

Thanks! I know a new whistle won't replace practice, practice, practice (I've years of study in various disciplines behind me. I know how only time and hard work produce results). I'm practicing almost an hour a day now. But it'd be nice to get some more relaxed tootling in at night after my wife and daughter have gone to bed.

Hi Marc,

Different whistles has their perks and peculiarities with them...
...Thanks to my gym trainor, my Economics teacher, and Doctor Love Feadoggie for those wonderful lesson I have applied on whistles.

Thanks for that! The different 'breath-lessons' I'm learning from the Bluebird and Mellow Dog are what's making it hard to choose between them. There's a lot to ponder in your post, I'll give it a lot of thought

I'm with Gumby on this. Acquire music, not things!
Why not set a musical goal with the whistles you have, and when you've reached it, get a Bb whistle as a mile-marker/reward? Too many instruments is just a distraction: focus on the music.
As for the Bluebird/Mellow Dog choice, sure, play both, but space it out by a few days or a week. Or stick to one, if you find yourself making better progress--whatever gets you closer to making the music you want. (And in case you're not already using it, here's a great place to learn: http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/b ... index.html)

That is sensible advice. I kinda had set myself a goal before any new whistles, just not a very stringent one Taking turns with the MD and BB makes sense too. Thanks! I had bit of look through Brother Steve's site a little while ago, and have been meaning to get back to it...

Cheers

Marc E

[Mitch]

Yes - I think the replies cover it nicely.

A whistle is not like the mainstream music paradigm .. we don't play them for that.

All I can say is - make it your own .. whatever it is you have that makes the music you love .. have it.

There's a story - I met (in the internet) a really old guy - Canadian bloke, about 80 years old. To me it seemed that he had done everything this life can offer .. he was at the end .. out of his lifetime-supply of luck .. he was in a charity shelter and still blasting it all out like a 16-year-old.
So I made a whistle for him and sent it over.

He wrote back that he wanted the education on how to play it .. and I told him - just find the notes .. it's easy on a whistle .. then play the tunes that come into your head to play .. this is not a contest.

I haven't heard from him for a while .. but the last thing he said was that he found music.

That's enough.

None of us are without it if we only reach out to touch it.

(Edit: Your Freeman whistles . each will come into your hand when that's what you need. Jerry makes sure that they can do that - the rest is in your own heart .. and how you share it)

[Poohze]

Thanks Mitch! That's a beautiful story and a touching message. I don't fully understand it... yet. But I've been a meditator for a while now, and one thing I have learned is that if you keep your ears, eyes, mind and heart open, eventually some understanding creeps up on you!

Thanks again!

Cheers

Marc E

[highland-piper]

Could their differences actually benefit my learning?

I vote "no". Just pick one and learn it. I love my Mellow Dog.

[Ted]

The Mellow-dog is more forgiving than the Bluebird of breath control. I would use the Mellow-dog to get some chops down and add in the Bluebird when you feel in control of the Mellow-dog. Both are great whistles but the Bluebird requires more breath control.

[Poohze]

Could their differences actually benefit my learning?

I vote "no". Just pick one and learn it. I love my Mellow Dog.

The Mellow-dog is more forgiving than the Bluebird of breath control. I would use the Mellow-dog to get some chops down and add in the Bluebird when you feel in control of the Mellow-dog. Both are great whistles but the Bluebird requires more breath control.

Thanks both! The greater breath-control demands of the Bluebird is kinda what had me leaning towards it as my sticking-to-for-a-while whistle... I do like to challenge myself (translate - "take the path of most resistance" ) But choosing the Mellow-Dog-for-the-moment path makes sense.
As an aside, while the MD is much more forgiving at the bottom end, I do notice it takes a lot more 'push' to keep the 2nd octave notes clean. That's kinda what I was getting at when I said that each whistle is teaching me different lessons about using the breath.

Thanks again!

Cheers

Marc E

[brewerpaul]

If you like them both, I say play 'em both. You're trying to have fun, not set any speed record for your learning. Switching from one to the other might even increase your flexibility as a whistle player.

[Billgh]

I don't have much experience with whistles but I have played guitar for a long time. I've found that a different guitar can change and enhance your playing in sometimes very new and exciting ways. I suspect this is also true for the whistle based on my limited experience to date, although to a perhaps much lesser extent. YMMV.

[Mitch]

Thanks Mitch! That's a beautiful story and a touching message. I don't fully understand it... yet. But I've been a meditator for a while now, and one thing I have learned is that if you keep your ears, eyes, mind and heart open, eventually some understanding creeps up on you!

Thanks again!

Cheers

Marc E

Hi Marc,

Keep playing whistles - keep playing and going where next it goes - and after a while .. you will be telling me these messages.

It is not all nice .. a lot of it is pretty confronting .. but if you persevere and get through - then you will have stories to tell .. worth telling.

I see this a lot - can't wait to see more!

[whistlecollector]

Thanks Mitch! That's a beautiful story and a touching message. I don't fully understand it... yet. But I've been a meditator for a while now, and one thing I have learned is that if you keep your ears, eyes, mind and heart open, eventually some understanding creeps up on you!

The Music's already inside you. The whistle is just a tool for getting it out. Kind of like one of those little pick things you use to get the walnut out of the shell.

I too agree with Mr. Gumby on this WHOAD business: the whistle won't make you a better musician -- BUT you knew that already! Once you gain some competency with the whistle, you will find that some whistles are easier to work with than others! They do have their own characteristic timbres and ranges. I find anyway that some tunes just sound better on this or that whistle. Purely a matter of aesthetics.

WHOAD can be justified in this search for the holy grail of whistles, as I don't think one has to remain stuck with a whistle one doesn't like just because. If you hear someone playing a Copeland and like that sound, go buy a Copeland. If you hear and like Sindt, buy a Sindt. If you hear and like a Generation, buy a Generation! As you find and acquire whistles that really please your ear and hand, you'll find that you just no longer feel the need to buy more. For example, I'm at the point now where I have what I call a nearly perfect set of whistles (for me!) -- if I never bought another whistle in my whole life, and sold off all the "extra" whistles, I think I'd be satisfied with my choices.

THAT being said, I'll second your intuition on Mack Hoover's whistles. I have one of his narrow bore Ds and it's definitely in my top five favorites. Definitely good for quiet tootling and stratospheric range without concomitant ear drum rupture. If you feel compelled to get another whistle soon, I think MH would be a good choice, and for the very valid reason(s) you indicated. It's my opinion, but I wouldn't recommend buying other whistles until you've got a good command of your first one or two. But after that time . . . just sit back and see where the whoad takes you!

Cheers