Newbie starting out...got me a German 19thc flute...help?

[Sarfeastlondonlad]

Hi all

Total newbie to both this forum, and Irish/Celtic "fluting" (is that a word?!).

I have recently acquired a very nice-condition 19thc German-made blackwood 6-hole, 14-key, flute, which to all intents and purposes, suits me just fine.

It has a stamp on the very bottom of the foot which says something like...

"..usmann ...urngrun...Schonbach Bohmen"

Anyone any ideas?

I can't find a thing about it on the internet.

I have read a lot of sniffy things about German simple-system flutes...but are they really THAT BAD????

Its not the loudest thing in the world, but it has a beautiful tone and plays lovely.

And...it is well-put-together...as most things German were/are.

Will this German flute "do" me?...for learning...and playing?...and maybe at some point joining in a session at my local Irish pub?

I just need to know whether or not I have the right tool for the job.

Thanks.

[Sarfeastlondonlad]

By the way...if anybody can tell me how to post pictures up on here of my flute...I will do.

Thanks.

[woodfluter]

There's this standard, accepted story about Boehm flutes becoming the norm around the turn of the 20th century, and the pawn shops of England (and Ireland??) getting flooded with lovely Rudall and Pratten flutes, but I don't buy it. Micho Russell's recollections indicated that cheap, mail-order German flutes became available around this time and that's when Irish flute playing took off.

Not that it didn't start earlier than that. I recall reading that the estimable Chief of Police Francis O'Neill (of the tune collections fame) started playing everything from classical to current pop to trad tunes, apparently before the mid-1860s, on wooden flute within his family. What make? Haven't a clue.

Also, I suspect that the rather expensive instruments would not have landed in such poor circumstances unless the owners were in dire straits. The transition to metal Boehm instruments seems a bit slower than that anyway.

Still, it is likely that flutes very much like yours were used long before some fine traditional Irish musicians acquired access to by-then-antiquated high end English flutes.

Play it with pride. I got one in good condition around 1993 and that's the first keyed wooden flute I had.
One word of caution: some (like mine) were made for English high pitch.
I ended up converting mine, via bore modification and tonehole tweaking, into a half-decent 5-key Eb flute.
If yours plays in tune with itself and others at A=440, you will do fine for the present.

Yeah, I hear what you said, but at some point you might end up wanting something that can stand on equal footing with a fiddle. Even if it costs a bundle. It can be worth the freight eventually. But no reason to feel ashamed of the German flute. Great music has been played on the like.

[Casey Burns]

These are a great low cost option for those who can't or don't want to afford a handmade keyed flute from a modern maker or some of the choice antique ones like Rudalls or Prattens. Some of these flutes can even be reworked - the term commonly used is "hot rodded" and I've done a few myself.

Main criteria is that it is in tune at 440 so it can be in tune with itself and other players. If so, why not use it? You look at old pictures of old Irish players in the pubs from the 20s and 30s and flutes such as this is what they were playing. If it works for them it should work for you.

Casey

[Gromit]

For a newbie you seem to be going through a fair number of flutes - if the german one "has a beautiful tone and plays lovely" then why dump it and if it's not that loud it's probably a good thing - as a beginner in a session you don't really want to be playing a loud flute.

I cannot, and will never, sit down and learn a tune by copying note-for-note from someone else.
I'd rather eat my own toenails.
Instead, I learn the scales by ear, the cuts, rolls, slurs etc...and hope to eventually form a "toon".

learning tunes by ear is a good thing but getting cuts, rolls etc. sounding good is tricky and I think you need someone to show you or get it from a book/cd like June McCormack's tutor - which in a way is like copying note for note.

I've heard a few session players who sounded as though they were hoping to eventually form a tune

Good luck

Sarfwestlondonlad

[Sarfeastlondonlad]

Thank you for your replies.

Duly noted

[Sarfeastlondonlad]

By the way...

IS THERE..such a place as..."Sarfwestlondon"?!

I thought London stopped at Tower Bridge?...and everywhere WEST of that...was posh blokes in straw boaters sipping Pimms?

Or am I mistaken?

[jim stone]

A lesson or two at the beginning can save much time and grief. Not lots of lessons, necessarily.

[Flexismart]

It’s not likely that you’ll notice the issues with your German flute right away. Of course, the most important aspect is that you have a flute and it makes a sound. With an old keyed flute, German or not, all of the keys must seal properly - if they don’t, that will be your first project. Blue tac, elastics, and tape work well in a pinch.

Other than the subjective aesthetic issues, the most common problem with old German flutes is that they have tuning ‘issues’ - not necessarily with the named notes that come out of the tone holes, but with a thing called ‘internal tuning’ - that is, overtones. If you’re playing by yourself these won’t be readily apparent, but once you play with someone else in unison - say, accordion and flute, or fiddle and flute, you’ll probably notice a series of notes that have a ‘disturbing’ quality. This is easier to hear if you record yourself and listen back.

Not all old German flutes exhibit this internal tuning flaw, but most do. There has been plenty of conversation over the years discussing how to blow a flute into tune (where a particular note is out of tune), and this may work for some people - but, really, it’s much easier to simply play an instrument that has great internal and external tuning and forget about fumbling about with turning in or out as you’re going along on a tune. (By their nature, flutes are inexact instruments in the beginning. They are harnessed by practice and patience).

So, perhaps, think of this as your first flute, and if it suits your style and ear, it should be good enough. If you start hearing weird noises coming from it, and your band mates ask you to play a different instrument, maybe it’s time to upgrade.

[Jayhawk]

I know a couple of good local players playing on old German flutes, and they sound totally fine and have been playing them for years. Not all German flutes are bad.

Eric

[an seanduine]

Sarfeastlondonlad, you asked about posting pictures. Here's the guide: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23407.
There were rakes and rakes of lousy German flutes, so the moderate to good ones sort of get broadbrushed with the others. A foto or two will help us give a damage assessment .

Bob

[Sarfeastlondonlad]

Thank you once again for your thoughts and opinions.

It is really very much appreciated.

My pictures are not on any web page so apparently I cannot put them up on here.

Shame.

I'm not going to dump my German flute.

It endears itself to me, looks nice, and is a genuine piece of history, unlike something shiny and new.

I always preferred old guitars to new ones, and the same applies here.

In the guitar "world" we call it...we call it "Mojo".

My old flute has "Mojo"!

Instead I'm going to just keep playing it and enjoying it until such time as I may need to replace it for sessions etc with something shiny and new.

[libraryman]

Talking about custom shop instruments, last year I visited the Fender factory in Corona. On the tour, they show you how they take racks of beautiful new instruments right off the assembly line and turn them into "relics" with acid baths, hammers, and sanders. Course those relics sell for about twice as much as the new ones. Made me wonder why all the flute makers turn out such beautiful shiny instruments. If they would just get out a little acid, pound in some dents and a few cracks, and scruff their flutes up, they could make a lot more money!

[psychodonald]

Welcom to the forum!!! I bought an old German made flute recently, an eleven keyed job and I just love it. jemtheflute, a regular on this forum, has probably forgotten more about 19th century and early 20th century flutes than most of us will ever know. He was very helpful to me in the purchase of my German made flute (it actually came from Norway, but is clearly a German made flute). Not speaking for him, of course, but I know that photos will be most helpful to him, as well as accurate measurements of the instrument, and my guess is that he will be able to answer any questions you might have. Nice to have you on board.

BTW, take a look at the "sticky notes," on the flute forum index page, and you will find some very helpful information on fingering (and other stuff to) for 19th Century flutes posted by jemtheflute.

[Gromit]

In the guitar "world" we call it...we call it "Mojo".

My old flute has "Mojo"!

My old German flute no longer has it's Mojo working - sadly it just won't work for me (it sounds a bit Muddy).